i actually started with pua as well / or found ROK as my first site
but then after a while, i was just like - wtf, why should i do all this pickup / frame / neg shit, that's not worth the time and effort - even without knowing anything mgtow XD

did men back in the 18th century use PUA to get a wife?

well..........maybe they used PUA on her father to get his permission, LOL

ehm

PUgay amirite?!

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon i will refer here to roosh,
he explained it quite good: pua is a scavenger tactic for a declining society , basically just to get sex

Roosh is a weird one

hm, i'd say he is mainly traditionalist

@Five, Seven, and Two the more hardcore side of MGTOW cant be bargained with. The purple pill side however are flaky, still likely date women, probably very supportive of PUA

and the interesting thing is, roosh didn't / doesn't attack mgtow like the other PUAs, as he probably understands the reasons behind mgtow
yeah he banged a ton of sluts, but then he said it himself, he didn't feel any pleasure, and actually felt drained,

so as a traditionalist, the sluts don't have that much value for him either

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon Let’s not pretend the men had much choice in who they married in the 1800s, either. That shit was on rails for most people by the time they were 12. Hurry up and get your own farm by 20, Timmy, you’ve got a wife and kids you’re going to get saddled with them.

If you watch his content you can tell he’s actually pretty mgtow, and yes now he wants a family life so an aspiring traditionalist

He still talks shit about mgtow though, I don’t get the disconnect

yeah, exactly, his latest streams are sort of reluctant mgtow

Economic invincibility pointed this out which is hysterical

but he can't openly use the mgtow label for himself,
that would destroy any pua credibility he's got left

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon So “monk mode” or “you’re basically a PUA”?

no

didnt word my anwer very well but thats not what I believe

You either your a loser virgin like me. Or your a pussy whipped simp like hermit

Sorry, I’m not ascribing this to you; trying to see where you see the camps being set up.

Pick one

Its actually difficult to draw the line between the camps, because on the surface they all look the same

but its just a feeling I get

Fuck or don't fuck, there's aids - Yoda

I got this feeling with MGTOW101 and DDJ

and to a extent Howard Dare

Also in the 30s and 40s slot of marriages were from unwanted pregnancies

btw, I never hear anyone talk about Howard Dae

dare

but I'm wary of him

That social expectation was still there

I think the hardcore MGTOW would be Stardusk, TFM, Colttaine, Coterie etc, guys who have actually and legitimately went their own way and aren't faking it for validation or anything else.

I've backed up Howard Dare's content.

Define hardcore

Dedicated to knowledge, self-actualization, just becoming your personally defined ideal self.

@Kaiser Dion Napoleon I’ve heard some of his stuff, but I thought he was just red pill, not really MGTOW. (It’s been a few years, though.)

Gotcha

@Misanthropic Imperial I listen to all them above

Cause I think the only legit simp is angry mgtow

The purple pill being Howard Dare, Angry MGTOW, MGTOW 101, DDJ etc.