http://classicalchristianity.com/2012/03/30/on-the-indelible-mark-of-the-priesthood/
It all just seems very arbitrary, and lacking the mark of good doctrine that is scriptural justification
bruh read the link I sent
The Cyprian quote says nothing of ontology
It speaks of doctrine and organizational unity
The Maximos Confessor is anything but early.
Call to action
sure he does
Imagine thinking you know more than literally every Church father for the first 1500 years of Christianity lmao
????
I've read the fathers man
Likely far more than you
Every single one would probably slap you if you told them that there is no difference in being a priest and a layperson.
"But he could not hold the episcopate, even if he had before been made bishop". Sounds to me like Cyprian isn't denying that the man isn't a Bishop
There is a difference
It's not ontological
It's economic
It's about order, unity, training, etc.
You seriously believe the Church fathers would be perfectly fine with any lay person saying Mass?
then why do you need a Bishop to confer Holy Orders?
No. And I'm not either
And neither was Luther or Melanchthon
if its about training etc why, in a desperate situation, couldn't a man declare himself a priest?
That doesn't mean there is an ontological difference
We're talking about in absence of all other options
Because that wouldn't be in good order -__-
And it wouldn't be in unity either
Ni
Even in Extraordinary circumstances, lay people *never* consecrate the elements
And they *never* preach either, even in the absence of pastors
So you agree lay people literally cannot consecrate the elements under any circumstance?
Yes!
That doesn't mean there is an ontological difference that you make up though!
But how do you account for Priests having that ability when lay people don't
I stick to the fathers and scriptures. If it isn't there, I don't believe it!
The ability?
Nobody has the ability
Wen did I say anything about ability?
I didn't say *can't* I said *shouldn't*
The ability is not in people
perhaps I should be more specific about the word ability - what I mean is, the priest is participating in Christ's ability so really it is God who is consecrating
