No, I mean people who earnestly believe that God is only present in that which he created and the laws that he bound them to

Materialists essentially

Oh ok, huh that is weird I’ve never imagined him in that way

"Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity, or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanent god."

How can the creator be the created?

The creator says

+search I am that I am

What is this

I'm trying to find the verse where Moses asks God to characterise himself to the Israelites

And God says "I am that I am"

Meaning he's everything

So they take that way too literally?

Exodus 3:14

**Exodus 3:14 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)**

```Dust


<14> God said to Moses, "I am who I am." He said further, "Thus you shall say to the Israelites, 'I am has sent me to you.'" ```

Thanks

More like that's all they attribute him as, missing all the other aspects of the Father

That's the usual one used.

So God is everything and more?

He doesn't say that He is everything, they, pantheists, expand His comprehension from "I am Who exists" to "I am all that exists".

Exodus 3:14

**Exodus 3:14 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)**

```Dust


<14> God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you. ```

Cause now I’m confused, I thought that God is creator so how can the creator be what has been created?

@Mac tíre iarain that's the problem with pantheism

The creator doesn't come into the equation

It's a cyclical heresy

So wait

Is he both the creator and the created?

The I Am is lost on most people today through the inclusion of the second "I". The traditionally wording is "I Am Who AM" where "Am" is a verb (state of being). The modern wording of "I Am Who I Am" is a grammatical error as it changes the sentence meaning from "I Am Being" to "I Am My Being". It is heretical for me to say of myself that I am who am, but it is safe for me to say, as Popeye would, "I am who I am" as that merely says "My personage is me".

***Edit, corrected "Second "Who"" to "Second "I""

So wait, is he both the created and the creator?

I suggest we move this discussion into Catholic Fun Friend Time.

Good idea. Also find some stuff from the Church fathers that explains it well.

No offense but y'all aren't the greatest theologians

I assume this is an arianism rebuttal? @Jimbo2025 @Deleted User

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1027.htm

Y'all behave now, I'm off for the night

Night Wrath!

Time for gym 😎

For arianism rebuttals go through the writtings of the fathers and look up "Arius", "Arian", or similar words.

Finally someone who actually knows what they're talking about

It was confused. We started off (Bunyip and I) talking about pantheism, then Mac joined and we confused him because he was looking for rebuttals of Arianism.

At least I think that's what happened.