Message from @Christus obnube Liberatoris
Discord ID: 587780692809613322
We would disagree on notion of sacrifice likely
And on what goes on for the recipient
Wait, maybe it's Martyr
I forget now
Irenaeus Adervsus Haeresis IV.18
@Quarantine_Zone is the Lutheran view consubstantiation
No
Because we reject such philosophical distinctions
But like, is this what y'all believe @Quarantine_Zone
Should I bother to get quotes from St Ireneaus and St Justin on the sacrificial nature of the mass?
Read their commentaries on Malachi 1:11 off the top of my head for quotes from both
@Wrath the issue with the definition you sent is that it makes out Consubstantiation to be less than what it is
And it lies
Lutheran Scholastics are clear in their rejection of the term in historical context
The Divine Liturgy which utilizes ancient elements written by St Chrysostom is clearly sacrificial in nature also, Lutherans would object to the Divine Liturgy
The didache, apostolic constitutions, all the ancient writers going back to St Ignatius comment on the sacrificial nature of the mass which requires a real and present victim. Not sure why you appeal to tradition for your view when you piecemeal
@Christus obnube Liberatoris We actually do have a sacrificial doctrine
No you don’t if there is no real and present victim it’s just mental gymnastics in my opinion to avoid the clear teachings of the fathers held in the universal church for all time
What about Line IV is unclear to you?
Just reminds me of nestorianism
Idk why
That’s why we formulated our doctrine the way it is, to avoid nestorianism. The debate on iconography also informed the church
Luther actually has a very Cyrillian Christology
Jordan cooper is a meme in my opinion I’ve read his book and his “citations” of the fathers in his book on christification because he is scared of theosis
The fathers were so far the other way in their view of theosis it’s ridiculous, the way he treated the fathers showed nothing but bias, ignorance or intentional deception.
So I will not trust anything he says
I’ve read the dogmatic Lutherans like Mueller, Jacobs and Voight, I’m familiar with Lutheranism and could not object to their teaching more
Yes. Seeing that Luther was not willing to give up his false teachings in order to team up with the orthodox, the patriarch of constantinople asked him to stop writing them.
What's the background on all the Legion of St. Ambrose drama? I keep seeing trad caths clowning on them on Twitter.
@zuckernerd i am not quite sure, there is a lot of misunderstanding from both side it seems in my view.
ya boi got suspended
Gahahahahahagagahagagah
What'd you say
literally nothing
I just opened twitter today to find footage of the helicopter crash in Manhattan today and I was greeted with that
but then again I was blocked by Jessica Price about three days before so maybe that had something to do with if