Message from @Quarantine_Zone

Discord ID: 587774989881704485


2019-06-10 22:09:58 UTC  

The Eastern Fathers would not be able to agree with the specific doctrine as it is defined in the West

2019-06-10 22:10:26 UTC  

Which part? They already did at Florence we breezed right through the sacraments there was almost no debate on them

2019-06-10 22:12:31 UTC  

In fact our understanding of the sacraments are so close there are treatise between our two churches for providing the Eucharist in cases of grave danger, while intercommunion is controversial we basically declared the other denominations understanding of the sacrament is sufficient and in agreement

2019-06-10 22:13:14 UTC  

Would the EO make that concession to a Lutheran? Never

2019-06-10 22:16:57 UTC  

>tfw I'm not in an autistic conversation for once

2019-06-10 22:17:01 UTC  

life is good

2019-06-10 22:18:48 UTC  

Don't worry, you'll be dragged into another one soon enough

2019-06-10 22:24:35 UTC  

@Deleted User didnt you watch Most Holy Family Monastery :^)

2019-06-10 22:25:51 UTC  

@Astro can't say I have

2019-06-10 22:26:40 UTC  

Im familiar with that format and background lol

2019-06-10 22:34:07 UTC  

@Christus obnube Liberatoris namely, the agreement to the specific philosophical distinctions, though I digress. The Roman view is simply more narrow than the Eastern view since the East is more mystical about doctrine and tends to avoid the more scholastic ideas

2019-06-10 22:35:14 UTC  

Though I'm not sure why you would say the EO and Lutherans disagree on presence in the Eucharist in any way

2019-06-10 22:36:24 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/435520935647248414/587772080083304455/Screenshot_20190610-183617_Drive.jpg

2019-06-10 22:36:53 UTC  

Line II is a quote from Irenaeus

2019-06-10 22:37:33 UTC  

We would disagree on notion of sacrifice likely

2019-06-10 22:37:41 UTC  

And on what goes on for the recipient

2019-06-10 22:38:29 UTC  

Wait, maybe it's Martyr

2019-06-10 22:38:32 UTC  

I forget now

2019-06-10 22:41:09 UTC  

Irenaeus Adervsus Haeresis IV.18

2019-06-10 22:47:26 UTC  

@Quarantine_Zone is the Lutheran view consubstantiation

2019-06-10 22:47:57 UTC  

No

2019-06-10 22:48:24 UTC  

Because we reject such philosophical distinctions

2019-06-10 22:51:29 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/435520935647248414/587775875957784623/Screenshot_20190610-155104_Chrome.jpg

2019-06-10 22:51:42 UTC  

But like, is this what y'all believe @Quarantine_Zone

2019-06-10 23:01:25 UTC  

Should I bother to get quotes from St Ireneaus and St Justin on the sacrificial nature of the mass?

2019-06-10 23:02:29 UTC  

Read their commentaries on Malachi 1:11 off the top of my head for quotes from both

2019-06-10 23:04:11 UTC  

@Wrath the issue with the definition you sent is that it makes out Consubstantiation to be less than what it is

2019-06-10 23:04:15 UTC  

And it lies

2019-06-10 23:04:46 UTC  

Lutheran Scholastics are clear in their rejection of the term in historical context

2019-06-10 23:05:15 UTC  

The Divine Liturgy which utilizes ancient elements written by St Chrysostom is clearly sacrificial in nature also, Lutherans would object to the Divine Liturgy

2019-06-10 23:06:27 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/435520935647248414/587779644544253967/Screenshot_20190610-190620_Discord.jpg

2019-06-10 23:07:24 UTC  

The didache, apostolic constitutions, all the ancient writers going back to St Ignatius comment on the sacrificial nature of the mass which requires a real and present victim. Not sure why you appeal to tradition for your view when you piecemeal

2019-06-10 23:08:52 UTC  

@Christus obnube Liberatoris We actually do have a sacrificial doctrine

2019-06-10 23:10:21 UTC  

No you don’t if there is no real and present victim it’s just mental gymnastics in my opinion to avoid the clear teachings of the fathers held in the universal church for all time

2019-06-10 23:10:37 UTC  

Even those outside the Catholic world in the East

2019-06-10 23:14:27 UTC  

What about Line IV is unclear to you?

2019-06-10 23:15:04 UTC  

Just reminds me of nestorianism

2019-06-10 23:15:14 UTC  

Idk why

2019-06-10 23:15:54 UTC  

That’s why we formulated our doctrine the way it is, to avoid nestorianism. The debate on iconography also informed the church

2019-06-10 23:16:30 UTC  

Luther actually has a very Cyrillian Christology