Nothing wrong with self flagellation if done under a spiritual director

It is a form of prayer and it’s not mutually exclusive to reading scripture or the fathers, there’s enough time in our lives for it all

Messianic Catholics are reprobated by Trent and Florence that teach the old rites, covenant and law are mortally sinful after the ministry of Christ

They exist only due to the failure of the hierarchy

Hot take

>giving dna to an ancestry company

It’s just a crappy idea in general

I’m just catholic

Not ci

[Matthew 10:28]

What does this mean?

Jesus and the apostles further reveal the nature of the soul

“Everyone is an apostate except me”

I don’t get universalism that’s heresy

Do you believe in the resurrection of the dead?

St Augustine had an axiom “if a man stands it’s by the will of God, if he falls it’s by his own will”

The Eastern Orthodox believe in metousiosis, which is change in ousia/substance

I disagree it is not found throughout the Eastern fathers

The ousia of the bread and ousia of the wine change while retaining the external characteristics what Latins would call accidents

The Eastern fathers may say these accidents remain in the phrasing of their time but they do not deny the change of ousia

The Greek term metousiosis translates literally as change of essence

Sure but we are speaking of generalities of the bread changing substance

Which both believe

Which part? They already did at Florence we breezed right through the sacraments there was almost no debate on them

In fact our understanding of the sacraments are so close there are treatise between our two churches for providing the Eucharist in cases of grave danger, while intercommunion is controversial we basically declared the other denominations understanding of the sacrament is sufficient and in agreement

Would the EO make that concession to a Lutheran? Never

Should I bother to get quotes from St Ireneaus and St Justin on the sacrificial nature of the mass?

Read their commentaries on Malachi 1:11 off the top of my head for quotes from both

The Divine Liturgy which utilizes ancient elements written by St Chrysostom is clearly sacrificial in nature also, Lutherans would object to the Divine Liturgy

The didache, apostolic constitutions, all the ancient writers going back to St Ignatius comment on the sacrificial nature of the mass which requires a real and present victim. Not sure why you appeal to tradition for your view when you piecemeal

No you don’t if there is no real and present victim it’s just mental gymnastics in my opinion to avoid the clear teachings of the fathers held in the universal church for all time

Even those outside the Catholic world in the East

That’s why we formulated our doctrine the way it is, to avoid nestorianism. The debate on iconography also informed the church

Jordan cooper is a meme in my opinion I’ve read his book and his “citations” of the fathers in his book on christification because he is scared of theosis

The fathers were so far the other way in their view of theosis it’s ridiculous, the way he treated the fathers showed nothing but bias, ignorance or intentional deception.

So I will not trust anything he says

I’ve read the dogmatic Lutherans like Mueller, Jacobs and Voight, I’m familiar with Lutheranism and could not object to their teaching more

no u

Pretty much

Heresy has consequences

Weird that the doctors of the church taught donatism

I don’t think you know what Donatism is, did they still hold jurisdiction in the church during their schism?

St Augustine explicitly rejects that idea and it wasn’t until the donatists were reconciled and repented of their heresy that their jurisdiction was restored

But this Protestant mass doesn’t contain errors or anything harmful <:ohyou2:569616856105877505>

The promulgation of a new rite was actually condemned and the wrath of Peter and Paul are upon those who formulated the new mass according to St Pius V

If you would rather throw out what was taught by Sts Peter and Paul to the first Christians in the catacombs for the ecumenical pipedreams of hippies in the 60s you are honestly a moron

Its pretty obvious if you look at it objectively and apply dogmatic ecclesiology to the current situation

The more and more information that comes out the more Vigano is vindicated