yes, the uncaused cause

Existence is what God creates, without God there is no existing

That the burden of proof is on the one who makes a claim, and without sufficient proof we should not accept the claim

sorry, i misunderstood one word in the fist sentence

on "'existing' is equally as provable as it being created."

unmoved mover, uncause causer, ok

so he wasn't created, that's what you are saying?

Yes

then, what makes you thing that we have been created?

Think of it this way. This is the material world. He created the material world from an immaterial world, like how we would create a computer which then creates a cyber world

Bit of a stretch, but you get the idea. There is no infinite circle where the immaterial then needs to be created, because it's not material - therefore nothing within it can be created

yeah, i understand, hes the programmer, that's also the way i see it

what do you define as inmaterial?

Something that can't be perceived with the 5 senses, however extreme they are

@The King Of Moab Well, the insufficiency of a proof doesn't mean that something doesn't exists, just that it cannot be proved with the current tools, that's why i think atheist are wrong

That's what you are saying?

Right, and this thing can't be "scientifically proven" because it can't be measured with material tools

well, we cannot perceive many things that exists in the "physical" world

there are things that can only be perceived with some extra tool and others that are (for now) out of reach

All things that are imperceptible of the material are still in relation to the material. My thoughts, for example, are a product of my brain. My consciousness and my soul are immaterial aspects, though

then, how do you know you have a soul?

You may one day be able to read my mind but you will never prove how gracious or sinister my soul is

It's an immaterial concept

yeah, but how do you know that the soul exists?

The same way you know God exists

I can't exist in the material without it

@Enryse so can we as human beings know things which we cannot prove scientifical? If yes, then metaphysics is a useful field of philosophy.

The question of the existence of God is a metaphysical question, of course

The Greek philosophers pondered these same questions long before any influence from the Abrahamic religion

but, i don't see why you wouldn't exits without god, if god wasn't created, what makes you thing that the first living creature was?

Because creature means something that is created

And how could you know something you cannot perceive? (I mean, yes, someone could tell you, and you could believe by faith, but that can apply to everything)

ok what about "living beings"?

Because not all knowledge comes from the senses

Yes, the Greek's pondered the same question, and many conclude that they cannot know

I know, math and logic comes for default

And the self existence knowledge

Right, and thus our epistemology is not dependent on our perceptions alone

yeah, but how does god is part of that default knowledge?

following the previous argument...

If there can be an unmoved mover, there is no reason to thing there cannot be others