Message from Tarbram in /leftypol/ International #english_theory


2017-05-20 17:52:16 UTC  

I mean, sure Maoists think so, but I don't hold that opinion myself.

2017-05-20 18:06:53 UTC  

Well yes Maoism isn't universally-applicable especially with his idea of New Democracy which is used to bring states from Feudalism to a somewhat Capitalist state run by the Proletariat with the Peasants along side the petty and national bourgeois. That is completely unnecessary in a nation that has already Capitalistic and thusly you can end the Capitalist stage through State Capitalism with the Party apparatus taking over the economy and then afterwards having the transition to socialism. And the other difference is Mao didn't believe that the Proletariat needed to be the head of the Proletariat Revolution if there weren't many Proletariats, while Hoxha believed that the Proletariat should always be those at the head of a Proletariat Revolution and if a state doesn't have many Proletariats then a strong Vanguard based around them needed to be made.

2017-05-20 18:08:40 UTC  

Personally through my firm belief in Historical Materialism I find what Hoxha talked about more Dialectical as Capitalism is necessary to remove tribalism and feudal concepts but at the same time the combination of Cultural Revolution and New Democracy can do the exact same thing

2017-05-20 18:12:20 UTC  

Do you know how Hoxha achieved 0% taxes?

2017-05-20 18:14:15 UTC  

Most Socialist States have zero direct taxes but there are still some taxes. And they can mainly do that because they sell goods to foreign markets they can use that money and through tariffs

2017-05-20 18:15:22 UTC  

oh ok

2017-05-20 18:16:25 UTC  

so for example in world socialism when all the economy is planned with cybernetics and there isn't any surplus from the production, taxes would exist?

2017-05-20 18:41:05 UTC  

Indeed

2017-05-20 18:41:30 UTC  

Taxes would no longer be necessary to run a governor

2017-05-20 19:18:14 UTC  

I believe taxes under stain were fairly low as well

2017-05-20 19:18:19 UTC  

because there was really no need for it

2017-05-20 19:18:54 UTC  

Because surplus value went towards programs that, under capitalism, require a large amount of taxation

2017-05-20 23:33:27 UTC  

Although I haven't read much about Hoxha, for what I have seen so far, it seems more aligned with Marxism than Maoism.

2017-05-20 23:34:49 UTC  

Marx was actually pretty clear in the historical progression through Dialectical Materialism and how capitalism was not only unavoidable, but also had a sort of "historical mission" in overthrowing Feudalism, and Mao seems to ignore or flee from that

2017-05-21 00:02:24 UTC  

Maoism is a part of Marxism-Leninism. I thought the same way but Mao introduced the idea of New Democracy in which a Capitalist stage would occur guided by the Proletariat with help from the Peasantry, Petty and National Bourgeoisie. With Cultural Revolution it does everything to void Feudal Culture and Hierarchy move into Capitalism and after that make it easy for moment into Socialism.

2017-05-21 00:03:02 UTC  

Hoxha applies is the industrialized world while Maoism applies in the pre industrialized places of the world

2017-05-21 00:08:24 UTC  

Hmm, makes sense. Does that mean the China still could return to socialism? And this is the phase of capitalism? How do maoists see this?

2017-05-21 00:09:04 UTC  

No it can't but revisionist PSL thinks so.

2017-05-21 00:09:16 UTC  

kek

2017-05-21 00:09:38 UTC  

I mean, it can but there would have to be some kind of cultural revolution or second socialist revolution to get rid of the bourgeoisie.

2017-05-21 00:10:48 UTC  

This is something that I still need to read about, but I must admit it's really intriguing about Maoism.

2017-05-21 00:11:04 UTC  

Mao did have the country turn into Socialism, New Democracy was very brief. Deng brought the Capitalism through pushing for special economic zones which were massively increased by Zimmin. Deng would describe what he did as a Capitalist stage with Two Stage Theory making it while Maoists would call it Revisionism. Maoists hate modern china and seek revolution.

2017-05-21 00:12:14 UTC  

Yeah, I expected that, and seems to the correct position

2017-05-21 00:12:32 UTC  

There are a lot of people within China, especially the youth sect of the official communist party, that are maoists and seek to return China to socialism.

2017-05-21 00:13:36 UTC  

I also have heard that Xi Jinping has started a program of intensifying and re-applying classes of Marxism in universities, but his intentions probably aren't really good

2017-05-21 00:15:39 UTC  

I am really looking forward to discover what Xi meant by "a return to Marxist roots" as he repeatedly said in speeches. I can almost feel more revisionism.

2017-05-21 00:16:44 UTC  

Even if Xi wanted to do that, it would fruitless form the top-down because huge swaths of bourgeois class members entered the party for decades.

2017-05-21 00:17:26 UTC  

I personally believe Deng did what was necessary to advance Industrialization and make the West dependent on China. I also see Xi Jinping's removal of all possible rivals (which are all of Zimmin's faction), his massive consolidation of power, and his father being one of Mao's closest allies to all be signs of a possible return to Maoist policies seeing that he would need China to be unified and need massive amounts of power to insure that none of the Capitalist Billionaires and Party Members loyal to them could try to stop this return into Maoism.

2017-05-21 00:18:25 UTC  

Well, it would not be a return into Maoism. China was never Maoist in the theoretical sense. Maoism was not developed until the 1980s, and in Peru.

2017-05-21 00:18:38 UTC  

That's MLM

2017-05-21 00:18:39 UTC  

By Maoist China most people mean China under Mao.

2017-05-21 00:19:12 UTC  

But that's what most MLMs want anyway, a return to socialism and the implementation of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism while shaving off his right deviations.

2017-05-21 00:19:21 UTC  

I could just be me being optimistic but I don't see any real reason for Xi to seize so much power and influence just to keep the status quo

2017-05-21 00:20:42 UTC  

Well, who knows, maybe it turns out all the revisionism since Deng was all a plan? lol

2017-05-21 00:21:08 UTC  

Could be

2017-05-21 00:21:13 UTC  

For real, though, I am skeptical, but it would be amazing.

2017-05-21 00:21:17 UTC  

I really doubt, personally, that Maoism would return to China under Xi. For one, the party was filled to the brim with multimillionaires and bourgeois elements, to the point where most of the party is under the control of bourgeois forces. Secondly, even if Xi consolidates his powers and has these good intentions, he would have to purge huge numbers of party members. It just wouldn't be possible for him to do this on his own, without some kind of cultural revolution, and it would most likely devastate the party in the short-term.

2017-05-21 00:21:40 UTC  

He's already purging people

2017-05-21 00:21:48 UTC  

He would have to purge more than half the party.

2017-05-21 00:22:41 UTC  

And part of Maoism is cultural revolution which with his current powers he could do. And purging lots of the Party could be done if he gained enough influence and removed heads of any opposition as he is doing

2017-05-21 00:22:46 UTC  

The PSL is of the opinion that the Chinese Communist Party can still reverse course, so you're not alone in believing this about Xi. But personally I tend to be extremely skeptical, and it seems idealistic (not in the philosophical meaning) to me.