Message from @Chairman Jack

Discord ID: 315552822223699968

2017-05-20 11:24:20 UTC  

So, marxism-leninism?

2017-05-20 11:24:48 UTC  

Yeah, I can't find any mayor differences

2017-05-20 11:26:06 UTC  

Oh, ok

2017-05-20 11:27:36 UTC  

But it seems to mix maoism in some ways, but besides of that I can't see any mayor difference

2017-05-20 13:10:21 UTC  

It's funny how western media potrays the DDR as some poverty-ridden hell hole and west germany as some paradise in comparison when it was almost as rich as west germany

2017-05-20 13:53:12 UTC  

Hoxhaism, isn't a thing as it never caused a real ideological spilt from Marxism-Leninism

2017-05-20 14:24:39 UTC  


2017-05-20 16:44:30 UTC  

@Chairman Jack It has points against maoism while picking some definitions and Albania was openly state atheist, denounces Cuban and Chinese revisionism

2017-05-20 16:47:17 UTC  

The trend considers third-worldism revisionist

2017-05-20 16:55:36 UTC  

Okay and it didn't break from ML thinking

2017-05-20 16:55:51 UTC  

Pointing out Revisionism isn't a break from basic ML thinking

2017-05-20 17:23:46 UTC  

I agree.

2017-05-20 17:24:07 UTC  

Hoxhaism I don't think should be considered its own separate ideology, then again I am of the belief that Marxism-Leninism is the highest stage.

2017-05-20 17:31:37 UTC  

Well MLM can be considered an addition to ML thought as it does offer some real rifts from original thought but Hoxhaism doesn't really do the same

2017-05-20 17:32:08 UTC  

A real difference and rift needs occur between ideologies for them to be considered different

2017-05-20 17:51:55 UTC  

I disagree, I don't agree with Mao's law of contradictions nor do I believe many of Maoist tenants are universally-applicable.

2017-05-20 17:52:16 UTC  

I mean, sure Maoists think so, but I don't hold that opinion myself.

2017-05-20 18:06:53 UTC  

Well yes Maoism isn't universally-applicable especially with his idea of New Democracy which is used to bring states from Feudalism to a somewhat Capitalist state run by the Proletariat with the Peasants along side the petty and national bourgeois. That is completely unnecessary in a nation that has already Capitalistic and thusly you can end the Capitalist stage through State Capitalism with the Party apparatus taking over the economy and then afterwards having the transition to socialism. And the other difference is Mao didn't believe that the Proletariat needed to be the head of the Proletariat Revolution if there weren't many Proletariats, while Hoxha believed that the Proletariat should always be those at the head of a Proletariat Revolution and if a state doesn't have many Proletariats then a strong Vanguard based around them needed to be made.

2017-05-20 18:08:40 UTC  

Personally through my firm belief in Historical Materialism I find what Hoxha talked about more Dialectical as Capitalism is necessary to remove tribalism and feudal concepts but at the same time the combination of Cultural Revolution and New Democracy can do the exact same thing

2017-05-20 18:12:20 UTC  

Do you know how Hoxha achieved 0% taxes?

2017-05-20 18:14:15 UTC  

Most Socialist States have zero direct taxes but there are still some taxes. And they can mainly do that because they sell goods to foreign markets they can use that money and through tariffs

2017-05-20 18:15:22 UTC  

oh ok

2017-05-20 18:16:25 UTC  

so for example in world socialism when all the economy is planned with cybernetics and there isn't any surplus from the production, taxes would exist?

2017-05-20 18:41:05 UTC  


2017-05-20 18:41:30 UTC  

Taxes would no longer be necessary to run a governor

2017-05-20 19:18:14 UTC  

I believe taxes under stain were fairly low as well

2017-05-20 19:18:19 UTC  

because there was really no need for it

2017-05-20 19:18:54 UTC  

Because surplus value went towards programs that, under capitalism, require a large amount of taxation

2017-05-20 23:33:27 UTC  

Although I haven't read much about Hoxha, for what I have seen so far, it seems more aligned with Marxism than Maoism.

2017-05-20 23:34:49 UTC  

Marx was actually pretty clear in the historical progression through Dialectical Materialism and how capitalism was not only unavoidable, but also had a sort of "historical mission" in overthrowing Feudalism, and Mao seems to ignore or flee from that

2017-05-21 00:02:24 UTC  

Maoism is a part of Marxism-Leninism. I thought the same way but Mao introduced the idea of New Democracy in which a Capitalist stage would occur guided by the Proletariat with help from the Peasantry, Petty and National Bourgeoisie. With Cultural Revolution it does everything to void Feudal Culture and Hierarchy move into Capitalism and after that make it easy for moment into Socialism.

2017-05-21 00:03:02 UTC  

Hoxha applies is the industrialized world while Maoism applies in the pre industrialized places of the world

2017-05-21 00:08:24 UTC  

Hmm, makes sense. Does that mean the China still could return to socialism? And this is the phase of capitalism? How do maoists see this?

2017-05-21 00:09:04 UTC  

No it can't but revisionist PSL thinks so.

2017-05-21 00:09:16 UTC  


2017-05-21 00:09:38 UTC  

I mean, it can but there would have to be some kind of cultural revolution or second socialist revolution to get rid of the bourgeoisie.

2017-05-21 00:10:48 UTC  

This is something that I still need to read about, but I must admit it's really intriguing about Maoism.

2017-05-21 00:11:04 UTC  

Mao did have the country turn into Socialism, New Democracy was very brief. Deng brought the Capitalism through pushing for special economic zones which were massively increased by Zimmin. Deng would describe what he did as a Capitalist stage with Two Stage Theory making it while Maoists would call it Revisionism. Maoists hate modern china and seek revolution.

2017-05-21 00:12:14 UTC  

Yeah, I expected that, and seems to the correct position

2017-05-21 00:12:32 UTC  

There are a lot of people within China, especially the youth sect of the official communist party, that are maoists and seek to return China to socialism.

2017-05-21 00:13:36 UTC  

I also have heard that Xi Jinping has started a program of intensifying and re-applying classes of Marxism in universities, but his intentions probably aren't really good