Message from @Deleted User

Discord ID: 540335280981278721


2019-01-31 00:52:58 UTC  

Regarding the newly established order; I simply mean "if it establishes a mini-capitalist market within Socialism".

2019-01-31 00:53:41 UTC  

define mini capitalist market

2019-01-31 00:53:54 UTC  

I mean it is a market technically if we are trading things

2019-01-31 00:54:22 UTC  

so certain things will be rare and will be worth more than other things at a given time

2019-01-31 00:54:51 UTC  

Well, yes. Earnestly? It'll probably be something that men and people smarter than me will have to respond to.. But...

2019-01-31 00:54:57 UTC  

Its a frisky matter.

2019-01-31 00:55:11 UTC  

A black market? No.

2019-01-31 00:55:16 UTC  

Well maybe we ought to work out these minor details b4 the violent revolution

2019-01-31 00:55:17 UTC  

Do you get what I mean? Kind of?

2019-01-31 00:55:28 UTC  

*That makes sense.*

2019-01-31 00:55:41 UTC  

So I know whether trading oranges will lead to my execution

2019-01-31 00:55:50 UTC  

No.

2019-01-31 00:56:07 UTC  

I would say that, in general, peer-to-peer trading wouldn't be an issue.

2019-01-31 00:56:24 UTC  

It would only become such if the structure of capitalism is being gradually re-built.

2019-01-31 00:56:34 UTC  

With the threat of force to back it up, especially.

2019-01-31 00:56:47 UTC  

(Even if those people use a personal currency.)

2019-01-31 00:58:36 UTC  

Here's the thing: I get 10 of my neighbors together, each of us has a home with a lawn, and each of us has converted part of his lawn into a garden where he plants things. No hiring of workers is going on here, it's personal property. I plant my seeds, water them, etc. Now, I specialize in growing carrots, Bob specializes in cabbage, etc. Because it's inconvenient for us to always trade veggies we use Snakebucks as a handy IOU to help simplify this process.

2019-01-31 00:59:08 UTC  

That is fine.

2019-01-31 00:59:16 UTC  

Can I loan Snakebucks?

2019-01-31 00:59:20 UTC  

Yes.

2019-01-31 00:59:29 UTC  

Can I collect interest?

2019-01-31 00:59:42 UTC  

Assuming it is not forceful and consensual, yes.

2019-01-31 01:00:41 UTC  

Well when Bob asks me if he can borrow some Snakebucks we sit down and hash out the terms of the loan, and he agrees to give something up if he fails to pay on time.

2019-01-31 01:01:13 UTC  

If the time comes and he can't pay, surely what he promised to give me is now my personal property, yes?

2019-01-31 01:02:03 UTC  

For good measure, let's say the whole arrangement has been put into writing, signed by both of us, and witnessed/signed by a third party

2019-01-31 01:04:18 UTC  

It sounds fair to me, even though I feel kind of suspicious of the whole contract and how that could be expanded to exploit Mr. Bob. But, if Bob agrees and is of sound mind. Then it would be valid.

2019-01-31 01:05:00 UTC  

Some form of contract would have to exist for Craftsmen Unions and Co-Operatives to function smoothly, anyway.

2019-01-31 01:08:32 UTC  

Okay, one more question: let's imagine Bob knows if I lend him Snakebucks in all likelihood he won't be able to pay them off when the time comes, so he doesn't want to borrow them, but he really wants some Snakebucks. He has an offer for me: he will help me plant my carrots, and in exchange for his assistance, I'll give him Snakebucks.
Is that okay?

2019-01-31 01:09:29 UTC  

That is going a bit too far in just re-constructing the capitalist market.

2019-01-31 01:09:47 UTC  

lol you were fine with it a sec ago

2019-01-31 01:09:57 UTC  

I don't see the big problem here

2019-01-31 01:10:04 UTC  

In that first place, it all seems unneeded and complicating things that are simple.

2019-01-31 01:10:06 UTC  

just a couple bros trading personal prop

2019-01-31 01:10:19 UTC  

But-

2019-01-31 01:10:23 UTC  

a couple good ol socialist comrades 😉

2019-01-31 01:10:29 UTC  

If that is just what they want.

2019-01-31 01:10:32 UTC  

I guess... Whatever.

2019-01-31 01:10:48 UTC  

So what I've described is ok under socialism?

2019-01-31 01:10:52 UTC  

If the mode of production is firmly socialistic in wider society.

2019-01-31 01:11:00 UTC  

We're not breaking any rules here

2019-01-31 01:11:10 UTC  

It would be unreasonable to police it and it also wouldn't develop.