however, at that same trial he denied espionage, terrorism, and conspiracy

and claimed those confessions were obtained through torture

Right, but he is certainly lying about the number and the nature of the killings

maybe he believed they were actually enemies of the people

There's no evidence he was tortured except his own claim after the investigations and original confessions, and even then he lies about other things, so why should he be trusted?

Okay I really don't think so. lmao

there is no way that can be known

That seems unlikely

well Beria sure didnt believe this

and, on to crown it all, after Ezhov was removed executions and arrests plummeted

We have a lot of evidence of soviet torture in investigations

It is not unbelievable that Yezhov would have been tortured himself

Why would he admit to those things?

Why would he freely condemn himself to death?

Surely he knew that if he stated those things, including conspiracy against Stalin, there would be absolutely no hope left for his survival

@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference if there was torture or not?

@ShadyMarxist we are discussing whether Yezhov conspired against Stalin to be executed under those reasonings

However, Yezhov claimed that previous confessions were obtained through torture

@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference?

Torture biases confessions

@Sorghagtani Beki Who cares about confessions?

The soviets most clearly did when they tortured Yezhov into giving them

@Sorghagtani Beki why is it important for us?

Before this, there was also discussion on why Yezhov was executed in the first place

and if it had been for mass killings, why use fabricated excuses?

There was plenty of evidence of Yezhov's massacres

@Sorghagtani Beki so? what is the end point?

It was a discussion on whether Stalin remained apathetic to Yezhov or openly opposed his manners of executions

and so far I have not gotten evidence to disprove an apathetic air

@Sorghagtani Beki It is interesting. Some people in the first world can't say if Obama did this or that and why. But they know why Stalin did this or that in another country in another time.

or confirm a concerned disposition

So many opinionated people .

On that topic.

It is interesting that many people cannot say anything about Obama's motives

but that is a result of political apathy, and blind opinion

many liberals may try to ignore criticism

many conservatives in america may assume things

It has nothing to do with discussion on Stalin

@Sorghagtani Beki What is your opinion on Stalin?

I feel that he had good motives, but so does everyone

When looking at Stalin, you have to examine the cost of his goals