@Sorghagtani Beki what is the difference?

Torture biases confessions

@Sorghagtani Beki Who cares about confessions?

The soviets most clearly did when they tortured Yezhov into giving them

@Sorghagtani Beki why is it important for us?

Before this, there was also discussion on why Yezhov was executed in the first place

and if it had been for mass killings, why use fabricated excuses?

There was plenty of evidence of Yezhov's massacres

@Sorghagtani Beki so? what is the end point?

It was a discussion on whether Stalin remained apathetic to Yezhov or openly opposed his manners of executions

and so far I have not gotten evidence to disprove an apathetic air

@Sorghagtani Beki It is interesting. Some people in the first world can't say if Obama did this or that and why. But they know why Stalin did this or that in another country in another time.

or confirm a concerned disposition

So many opinionated people .

On that topic.

It is interesting that many people cannot say anything about Obama's motives

but that is a result of political apathy, and blind opinion

many liberals may try to ignore criticism

many conservatives in america may assume things

It has nothing to do with discussion on Stalin

@Sorghagtani Beki What is your opinion on Stalin?

I feel that he had good motives, but so does everyone

When looking at Stalin, you have to examine the cost of his goals

and those costs were too high

those costs would have been avoided if Lenin was leader

@Sorghagtani Beki Anarchists shot Lenin. What can we do?

even Trotsky would have been a better choice

@Sorghagtani Beki But nobody picked him.

and Lenin specifically was against Stalin

@Sorghagtani Beki Party accepted Stalin's program and kicked out Trotskie.

out of rashness

we know how the party criticized stalin afterwards

@Sorghagtani Beki After many years of discussion on Trotskie vs Stalin.

and how they applauded Khruschev's bitter criticisms of him

the communist leaders were heavily against Lenin's NEP

that may be why

Stalin was particularly critical of it

they lacked the patience

@OF-8 "the system i have works, provably works" You mean financially through mechanisms of exploitation.
It would be a deadlock if you had a rational framework for your assertion, but you only have opinion and what looks like contradiction. But I would not expect much else from an idealist. Good chat.

@Sorghagtani Beki Trotskie was an outcast long before he was kicked out. Small percent of Party backed him up.

we should examine why Stalin was supported