the disconnect is that numbers for example are symbols which can be found in the material world and they designate material things

so they cannot be immaterial

there is no such dichotomy

@reedpopper They are but they are not, the interaction of your brain matter to create the thought is material, but the concept they formulate is based off of something that would exist even without your brain

Therefore the concept is not material

everything you can talk about or refer to exists within the scope of experience

Or do you intend to contend that they are simply translations from other parts of the material world?

how would numbers exist without me thinking of them

@Deleted User We can experience these numbers because they are symbology of material measurements

We do not experience God because there is no physical proof of him existing, therefore this is an immaterial philosophy

They most certainly CAN be immaterial, they have a relation with materials but they are not material

They do not cease existing if the material they are translated onto ceases existing

Simply

If the world stopped existing numbers wouldn't

what level of mental gymnastics is this

if the universe stopped existing, numbers would stop existing

Less that what you go through to justify your delusion

the world is not the universe

i see we're not getting anywhere with this

If the universe stopped existing, numbers would still exist

let us move on from numbers then

and take another example

They would lose their function but they would not cease being

give me another example of an immaterial thing

maybe we can tackle that more simply

General concepts

give an example of a general concept

could you be a bit more specific

The immaterial is conceptual

Words perhaps?

Any given thing we can think of

That is tied to the world yet is above it/out of it

"immaterial" is a meaningless symbol as it does not designate anything

"Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions."

R E A D

@big fat memes But it is not *just* matter

what else is it then

"In contrast to materialism, idealism concedes the primary of consciousness, which means consciousness exists before material, consciousness creates and determines material, not vice versa. Idealism theories believe consciousness is the origin of the world and aim to explain the existing world by mental causes."

I contend that consciousness, or what can be reckoned by the conscious, is not material

>muh idealism

Wrong argument

what is consciousness