Message from @reedpopper
Discord ID: 374282662300483584
@big fat memes >not being both
What do you not understand
Where is the disconnect
the disconnect is that numbers for example are symbols which can be found in the material world and they designate material things
so they cannot be immaterial
there is no such dichotomy
@reedpopper They are but they are not, the interaction of your brain matter to create the thought is material, but the concept they formulate is based off of something that would exist even without your brain
Therefore the concept is not material
everything you can talk about or refer to exists within the scope of experience
Or do you intend to contend that they are simply translations from other parts of the material world?
how would numbers exist without me thinking of them
@Deleted User We can experience these numbers because they are symbology of material measurements
We do not experience God because there is no physical proof of him existing, therefore this is an immaterial philosophy
They most certainly CAN be immaterial, they have a relation with materials but they are not material
They do not cease existing if the material they are translated onto ceases existing
Simply
If the world stopped existing numbers wouldn't
what level of mental gymnastics is this
if the universe stopped existing, numbers would stop existing
Less that what you go through to justify your delusion
the world is not the universe
If the universe stopped existing, numbers would still exist
let us move on from numbers then
and take another example
They would lose their function but they would not cease being
give me another example of an immaterial thing
maybe we can tackle that more simply
General concepts
give an example of a general concept
could you be a bit more specific
The immaterial is conceptual
Words perhaps?
Any given thing we can think of
That is tied to the world yet is above it/out of it
"immaterial" is a meaningless symbol as it does not designate anything
"Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions."
R E A D
@big fat memes But it is not *just* matter
what else is it then
"In contrast to materialism, idealism concedes the primary of consciousness, which means consciousness exists before material, consciousness creates and determines material, not vice versa. Idealism theories believe consciousness is the origin of the world and aim to explain the existing world by mental causes."
I contend that consciousness, or what can be reckoned by the conscious, is not material