@quiscalus Fuck off commie scum.

I assumed this place would be a good place to talk about leftist theory, why the hostility?

in USA only a very bloody revolution

This is a good place, but you have to watch out for the right-wing hanger-ons who troll these parts because the right can't meme.

well that happens

I mean a revolution in USA will be the bloodiest shit ever

everyone has guns

@Deleted User you ever chat on stalingrad there is a pretty interesting friendly dude there from Russia that is a ML and supporter of the CPRF

invite me please

I had no idea that they get the 2nd most votes for president in the past 5 or 6 presidential elections

And to address your questions, the only solution is revolution. Unless of course your only goal is to democratize the workplace, in which case you can lean on economistic theories that will unfortunately not bring about actual socialism and can only result in petty-unionism which will effectively enable your movement to be absorbed by capitalism.

Resistance in the first world, Revolution in the third.

We need to stop capitalism from ever happening again.

@quiscalus Yes, I am on there from time to time. I know who you're talking about, seems like a cool dude.

I feel without nationalized industry production will be not coordinated in a fashion to best meet the needs of the people so it is important to have workers run the business but need information about how much to produce from centralized authority aka the state

@Deleted User also thanks for suggesting I read the state and revolution I am over half way done now at it really helps me understand Marx and his vision for revolutionary change, as a person who only read the communist manifesto I was not as familiar with that Marx outlined

I disagree, I think we should have some kind of SS to regulate the nation instead of the workers. Because the workers will only work in their own self interest but the SS (or whatever we called it) could work for the benefit of everyone.

It also shows how many people who claim to be socialists like a lot of social democrats are actually revisionists and subvert the goals of socialism

I agree, I believe that it is definitely important. I am, however, not a fan of cooperatives as they still have to compete in the market and often times the "worker-owners" end up bossing around other workers, as is the case with Mondragon, for example.

@quiscalus No problem, glad you're enjoying it.

yeah also the idea that coops are a means to revolutionary government is kind of absurd considering Mondragon operated under Franco and posed no threat to his government or him to their business

And yeah, the movement is rife with such types.

@quiscalus Exactly. I know quite a few anarchists and closeted social democrats who advocate such an organizational form. It's really absurd and very non-revolutionary.

I am a lot more sympathetic to the MLs and tankies especially learning more about how the revolution in October in 1817 came to be and the related push back my outside forces

I could be wrong but my theory is that since the huge anti soviet sentiment from the cold war makes people super reactionary and tend to not be interested in learning more about the ML prospective, at least that is what happened to me

Yeah, 16 foreign militaries, as well as the White Army, tried their best to stop the revolution in its tracks.

the 1817 revolution was funded by soros

Lol

@quiscalus Yeah, unfortunately the "Red Scare" and McCarthyism really left a negative impression.

yeah when you think about what Lincoln did in the civil war their reaction is not too unreasonable but you are practically considered stupid and unamerican if you are critical of Lincolns approach

My biggest criticism of the revolutionary left in the US it seems like it solely caters to very educated middle class folks and refuses to adapt to both explain and attract common working folks.

Yeah, I'm not too fond of Lincoln considering the fact that he was a closeted racist who would have gladly kept the institution of slavery in tact if it meant he could preserve the union while avoiding civil war.

using soviet imagery and Marxist jargon imo causes individuals to not even consider what is being said let alone open really having what is said change their opinion

I am just saying that other leaders remain blameless in the minds of most Americans but because our political prejudices we level hefty accusations against USSR without taking time to grasp the circumstances

@quiscalus Unfortunately there are a lot of academic types that are highly disconnected from the working-class movement, but there are also major organizations and groupings that are actively involved in their local communities doing things like feeding the homeless, setting up "free stores," combating gentrification, hosting book studies for people with little to no theoretical knowledge, and offering advanced, college-level classes at little to no cost.

he thing that troubles me is that I think working class people are more likely to stay motivated by the material conditions they live as compared to the more upper middle class college student who as they graduate and have better incomes have less material pressures to guide them to or keep them in a revolutionary perspective and are more likely to become some type of soc dem reformers

And many of these people are "Stalinists". Lol

yeah I just started getting involved in the food bank here but I wish I could do more about housing in my area but that seems like a more difficult issue to address considering how food and housing differ so much in regards to capital

for businesses giving away unwanted food saves them time, money, and energy where things like houses and apartment require huge amounts of capital and are not easily parted with

@quiscalus Yeah, I tend to ground my analysis in world-systems theory, as well dependency theory. I don't believe there's revolutionary potential in the first world, at least not currently. There are too many workers who have been essentially "bought-out" by the system and are beneficiaries of the superprofits that are extracted via the hyperexploitation of the proletariat in the third world. There is little to no incentive for revolution here and class-conciousness is at an all-time low.