Message from @ᚾᚨᚦᚨᚾ

Discord ID: 324320232430895104


2017-06-13 22:45:49 UTC  

Well first of all I can list a million reasons why they aren't socialists

2017-06-13 22:45:58 UTC  

And just because they call themselves socialist doesn't make them socialist

2017-06-13 22:46:21 UTC  

They even adhere to principles of marxism-leninism, and their policies are socialist policies.

2017-06-13 22:46:32 UTC  

Marxism Leninism isn't socialism

2017-06-13 22:46:34 UTC  

There ya go

2017-06-13 22:46:59 UTC  

It's not merely marxism-leninism, they're officially a socialist party.

2017-06-13 22:47:06 UTC  

By name

2017-06-13 22:47:10 UTC  

Exclusively by name

2017-06-13 22:47:20 UTC  

By practice they're nothing but corrupt oligarchs

2017-06-13 22:47:53 UTC  

I can agree with that, but I think all socialist governments are like that.

2017-06-13 22:47:56 UTC  

Socialism is democratic, socialism is communal, socialism is not a dictatorial government doing whatever they want with the economy

2017-06-13 22:48:11 UTC  

Well yeah because every socialist government based itself on Russia's model

2017-06-13 22:48:53 UTC  

With one exception that I know of which is revolutionary Catalonia

2017-06-13 22:49:09 UTC  

But that was overrun by fascists in the Spanish civil war so

2017-06-13 22:50:02 UTC  

I agree with that but so what's your idea of socialism and having a socialist government?

2017-06-13 22:51:08 UTC  

I, along with anyone who's not some sort of Stalin apologist, would probably support a purely democratic government and an economy that is truly owned and operated by the workers

2017-06-13 22:51:42 UTC  

And how would it be owned and operated by workers?

2017-06-13 22:52:18 UTC  

Well one was is Syndicalism, it's like a republic flipped upside down

2017-06-13 22:52:37 UTC  

Representatives don't represent, they take orders

2017-06-13 22:52:48 UTC  

Way is*

2017-06-13 22:54:58 UTC  

And your business or whatever you call it would operate itself, send a representative to a local trade union, which would coordinate the economy on a local level, which would then send a representative to the syndicate to organize the economy on an even larger scale, which would then send a representative to the Bourse du Travail which consists of syndicates working together on the basis of mutual consent

2017-06-13 22:56:25 UTC  

So your union would represent something like a small town, your Syndicate would operate something like a state, and the bourse du travail would operate the nation, only instead of the national level having the final say/authority it's the people

2017-06-13 22:57:11 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/324321334744186882/image.gif

2017-06-13 22:57:15 UTC  

Something like this

2017-06-13 23:01:30 UTC  

Alright, but who can start a business and hire employees?

2017-06-13 23:01:53 UTC  

You can come together as a group to form a business-like entity

2017-06-13 23:02:45 UTC  

But undemocratic private ownership is precisely what this system seeks to abolish

2017-06-13 23:02:51 UTC  

And replace

2017-06-13 23:03:37 UTC  

So one person can't own a business alone, or run it as he wants.

2017-06-13 23:04:09 UTC  

if you own it alone, you would have no one working for you

2017-06-13 23:05:08 UTC  

^ Why?

2017-06-13 23:05:38 UTC  

Well if it works out how Catalonia did, no one would be willing to work for you

2017-06-13 23:06:40 UTC  

Why wouldn't anyone be willing to work for me?

2017-06-13 23:07:19 UTC  

Because why would you work under the economic equivalent of a dictatorship when there's a shiny new democracy across the street

2017-06-13 23:10:02 UTC  

Not only would you then have a say in the business your income and possibly your life depends on, but you'd also be able to directly advocate for workers rights and your needs as workers

2017-06-13 23:11:30 UTC  

Just look at how effective things like unions are at advancing worker rights and pay

2017-06-13 23:12:50 UTC  

Unions are a modern failure now that businesses can afford to send workers to technical schools and butt unions workers out of the loop. They only get government contracts now and usually only state or federal projects.

2017-06-13 23:13:27 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/324325425042161665/image.jpg

2017-06-13 23:13:29 UTC  

Or at least that's my observation from the side of metal working and electrical unions.

2017-06-13 23:13:32 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308995540782284817/324325446986498048/image.png