dude, they were shooting each other in fucking airports.

[8:03 PM] folk: so in order to avoid an everlasting cops-and-robbers, society accepts a certain level of crime as long as the bikers keep it contained

You'll have to forgive me for not accepting criminals

shooting eachother at airports is not "contained"

no shit

10/10

yes so why did you say that :P

kinda the point

I never disputed your point

then what the fuck are you arguing with me about?

it doesn't matter if you accept them or not mal, society does, or they'd all be locked up

I'm not

current society might not be capable of preventing their existence, but that doesn't mean we can't strive for the creation of a society that doesn't have to suffer their existence.

Or are you disputing something that Mal said?

yes

society is entirely capable of preventing their existence

Part of the problem here is the tension between all of the gangs had them scooping up new members by the dozen

but if we do, something worse takes their place

and the new people being all "hey I'm in a biker gang now I'm super-tough guy I can do what I want"

a devil we _don't_ know

and _can't_ control at all - never

And it just spilled out *every*where

speculation

err, okay, it's not speculation, but fine

well, if it isn't speculation, I'd like to see some evidence of that fact.

I think it's possible to create alternatives to the "services" these people provide, without the consequences that their existence brings with it.

they mostly deal in drugs, drugs aren't as dangerous as ignorant politicians would have us believe

this is a self-evident concept, that once you remove a controlling system with power, several new smaller, unknown elements immediately start rising up to replace it

take away their means of generating revenue

I don't have to prove anything

remove their basis of existence

the cops know who the bikers are, they know their uniform, they know where they live, they talk to them weekly, they agree to keep things on the "down low", and once in a blue moon they get out of containment

or do something we can't accept

and then the cops smack down

this is how society wants it, with good reason

the alternative is absolute chaos

if you take control of the elements that these people use to continue existing, how would anything be capable of rising to take over, when there is no vacuum

nonsense

oh I agree that drugs should be legal

society doesn't "want" this system to exist, in any case

and that this would remove most of their funding stream