If A inevitably leads to B, then yes, you can claim B is part of it as much as A.

it doesn't though

having like price controls or a minimum wage doesn't change that the means of production are still privately owned

and there are examples of collective control that isn't realized in the form of state owned enterprise like in rojava and chiapas

How the fuck are you going to enforce socialism without the government using it's tiranical power and suppressing people's freedoms?

even in the soviet union to an extent, kolkhozes were only partially directly state controlled and were sort of an intermediate between state owned enterprise and cooperatives

you would do it like you do in chiapas where power is held in a very decentralized manner

granted i don't personally advocate for such a thing

but it exists

did they pop up on their own?

Who gets to shoot the citizens that don't like being told how to live their lives? Government? Or local groups? Does it matter?

via armed rebellion

i dunno i mean every society is backed by the threat of force

Not true.

if you want to call like any organization of force no matter how decentralized and informal a government then fine but then asking how socialism could exist without a government is a pointless question since no society has or can

Everywhere else, you only fear the usage of force against you by the government if you broke the law.

yeah the law is telling you how to live your life

But the laws on one place are to stop people from actively harming society, the other has abusive laws that let government overstep into everyone's private affairs.

it sounds like you're making an argument based on the liberal dichotomy between positive and negative liberty

It sounds like you speak in paragraphs to avoid addressing arguments.

that's not a paragraph

Why did all those Cubans risked death to flee the utopia then? Stop monologuing your commie talking points and respond.

i dunno why do mexicans risk death to flee mexico

probably because the united states is richer than every single latin american country

with the overwhelming majority being capitalist

Was it good to live there and risk being one of the 30k killed by firing squads?

if you worked with the batista government or the usa then no it was not good to live there, and rightfully so

key figures from the previous administration and those who have shown themselves to do what amounted to treason had to be gotten rid of

also i don't think 30k people were killed by firing squads

usually in the death tolls for cuba they'll include things like war deaths and immigration deaths

castro killed my father

Man that's sad.

I cri

But what is the soylent green made of <:GWragMonkaS:390321742624849920>

dissent(ers)

No. The laws are in place to keep you from infringing on other people's rights, anything more than that is tyranny and I have no idea why you or anyone else would want that, it takes away your freedom and it's good for no one.
If an untyrannical law hinders you from living your life the way you want to, than it's only because a certain part of your way of life is infringing on someone else's rights (for example if your way of life includes killing or stealing). Otherwise I don't want the government to tell anyone what to do, it's needlessly authoritarian and stupid.

but muh paternalism. People don't know what they really want, it's better to have the state tell the mindless sheep how to live. <:pepe_smug:378719408341909506>

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https://youtu.be/FOx8q3eGq3g?t=68