like let's be honest God is a vengeful God

Fine, look my opinion is that God shouldn't be the decider of morality, The effects of the action should, thats my choice.

I won't sugarcoat it

What your perspective on God? Do you believe or dont

Like when the Israelites started worshipping idols instead of God. God instructed the Levites to kill all those who worshipped said idol.

The Isaac part was about whether Abraham would submit his love for his son to his love and dedication to God. As I mentioned before, in some cases, such as my brother committing a horrible crime, I must "kill" my love for him, to do the right thing.

It was less about literally killing his son, but to not let love for his son cloud his covenant with God.

Yes God gave Abraham his son when he was 100 years old. Abraham was really happy when Isaac was born

Through God's gift, Abraham was given a purpose in the world.

One of the greatest gifts a man can have is the opportunity to be a father.

Though a lot of the morals changed after the New Testament. Like God’s philosophy changed a bit

The reason I think God was more "harsh" in the old testament, is the same reason that at times, a parent must be harsh with their young child. They must "demand" that their child listens to their instructions because they don't know better. Once a child reaches a certain age, they begin to understand the reasons behind such "tough love".

I believe in him but, I really care more about what it does on earth than in heaven, I side that I most kill my love of god to save my love of my brother. I can see the smile of my brother, I cant feel gods love. I struggle to believe that god is real. My interpretation of the bible is more about loving your neighbor, because Jesus was 100% real, I will always value the ruling of Jesus over The father/ the holy sprit because he was a real person, He only wanted us to be happy, God, i think only cares about if we follow the rules. God can be real, and if he is, if I left the world in a better state that I found it in, I feel that the world is more important than gods word. I agree with gay marriage because that only brings joy to the world . To summarize, I look morality through the eyes of an atheist, The old testament will be always overruled by the new one.

It wasn't until I was much older that I realized many of the things my parents did that I , at the time, thought was harsh, but turned out to shape me into a decent person. You can't forge a sword without getting a few times. I don't mean hitting in a literal sense though.

God, Jesus and Holy Spirit are one

You really can’t take one without the other

God and Holy Spirit are just as real as Jesus. I understand that you can't see God or Holy Spirit but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Hope that make sense

Going back to the topic of mortality, humans are corrupt, so when we follow mortality throught the lenses of human we will have a flawed mortality. God is perfect therefore his mortality is superior to our view of mortality

@White Feather I understand fully understand what you are saying. It was torturous for me to come to terms with the idea that I may need toss aside all my loves that I can see with my own eyes, for a God I have never seen. On the part of Jesus, he said he was the Son of God. One cannot be the son of a non-existent archetype. Either Jesus was a lunatic when he said he was the son of God, in which he should not have been executed and should be pitied. Or he was a liar, and deserved execution for being a rebel rouser. You can't say that you like Jesus, and yet want the security of having a grand purpose in the world without admitting that you're either listening to the words of a lunatic or a treacherous bastard.

The reason why I am guarded around the idea of the results mattering more in regards to moral acts, is that if it Western culture, specifically of the American variety, was the most stable and most productive one in the world, and required the deportation or elimination of individuals that would not adhere to it to survive, I would fight with every iota of my soul against it. even if it resulted in the death of my culture, my people, and my family.

None of those should ever stand as rivals to God, and righteousness.

People don't want to follow religion because it means change in their cushy lives. They're far too lazy and priveleged to consider someone above them and to act on someone else's will.

To Deify any of the aforementioned things has always led to ruin. Nationalism that is not tempered by righteousness unleashes a horror of the likes of Nazi Germany. The deifying of race leads to a racialist ethic that would justify the extermination of other races to aid your own. And it frightens me that I can very easily use publicly available statistics to justify such a travesty.

Look, We have different values, If continue this nice conversation will devote into a shouting match. I value the world more than god. Thats just who I am, It might be sinful but thats just a value. I respect your decision to do what ever you want, i'm not you and I don't know your values. No matter what you tell me, you will not change my value. No matter what i tell you, I wont change your value

Lets agree to disagree

I meant no offense. I have not use profanity. Although we may never see eye-to-eye, I very much appreciate this exchange. I thank you for that.

I just hope that you can understand that my beliefs don't come from hatred. As I know yours does not come from disdain of me.

When you say you value the world more, what are your values based on? Keeping the world healthy? Do your values change often?

Mo-me119, most level headed individuals like him that I've talked with adhere more towards the Golden rule. Do unto others as you would have done to you. I may not hold that as the moral sovereign of the world, but it is still, at the very least, a quite respectable ideal.

He has defended his view very admirably, unlike many Christians and non-believers that I've witnessed. This was a very good conversation.

I also don't have any values in politics. Having value in politics like, the state should have more power will lead to you making the wrong choice just because it full fills your world view. The thing I hate most about American Politics is how it has become a game of Us and Them, Red vs Blue. Both sides are guilty of this. You refuse to listen to arguments that make sense because your values are different and because they are Blue, or wha ever tribal name you give them. TL;DR, I hate the modern Tribalism that is politics

@Raging Smurf Yeah definitely, just curious about the values changing

Most definitely. I may conservative, but I find tribalism of a political nature to be insufferable

Are guys referring to identify politics or is that different from tribalism?

I don't put any labels on myself because that would just make possible friends into emeys

Yes, it's frustrating and often leads people to ignore or downplay the significant downfalls of their preferred candidate

Half of Bidens are trumps votes were because They didn't want the over side in power

@DeButcher i would say they are different but similar

I don't doubt that there were a large amount of votes that were cast out of near animalistic hatred of the Party and their "I'll" or whatever the hell they call their rivals.

*Ilk*

Well gentleman, this was a sound investment of my time, but I must be off. Dinner awaits. Farewell.