@yetiCodes well trump has destroyed the gop. The divide is now the Trump cult or the GOP.

Is Wisconsin certifying today

I found the independent Michigan poll watchers testimony jarring. We have a party and their poll watchers claiming election workers and Democrats are doing shenanigans and then you have impartial arbiters there to watch both sides say no Democrats and election workers were very professional the GOP was intimidating the workers and breaking the rules in shocking ways.

@AdvanceManExtraordinaire Regarding the affidavits and firsthand testimony being presented by Giuliani/Powell/Wood... I think that in a court of law, a competent defense would be able to bring in psychologists/psychiatrists to make a credible case that witnesses were heavily influenced by Trump and RWM with a healthy dose of confirmation bias. I don't doubt the sincerity of regular people coming forward to describe what they saw, but their perspectives were skewed from 8 months of constantly being told that there would be fraud. As such, it can be argued that what they attest to is only indicative of malfeasance when seen through that lens of assumed fraud when otherwise, under normal circumstances, it may be easily explained. The local officials and lawyers that have come forward appear to choose their words very carefully - it makes me doubt their sincerity more. I also feel that the assumption of ill intent may have complicated matters as they describe confronting officials as opposed to asking for clarification. This adversarial approach, I think, was counterproductive to getting to the truth, which is what we should all want. I honestly have only heard testimony from one person that made me believe that there was something to be investigated - Susan Voyles in GA. Other than that, I find it less compelling. BTW - I believe that confirmation bias goes both ways. Democratic-leaning election officials, workers, and observers were biased to believe that Repubs would be trying to prove false claims of fraud. The reports of tensions at the polls and counting centers made it less likely that either side will be satisfied if the result is their candidate lost. It's unprecedented, unfortunate, and unAmerican.

I dont know if every state has neutral parties beyond that election workers are acting in a neutral capacity

@james j, you may be correct, but at the end of the day there hasn’t been a single riot. No cities burned. No body killed. So though the trump cult may be unreasonable at times, I’d rather deal with them anyway vs the antifa crew of the left.

🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ Anfita has started riots over far less then presidential election shenanigans

We will see what happens when they figure out Trump might have lost all the proud boys and white nationalists and general Trumpists I know still swear he won 100%

Part of me doesn’t want trump to flip this thing (Assuming there is verifiable proof of election fraud on a substantial scale) because cities are going to burn.

Trump losing might trigger enough boogalosers and maga draggers into more violence than they normally do

@Dedkraken the day to riot would have been Nov 4-11. When Biden got his vote spike would have been a perfect time, or when they boarded up the counting rooms would have worked.
The time to riot for the right has already passed imo. If the legal game fails, then that’s it. People will move on.

That might be a sensible day to riot but it seems like Trump has argued a less sensible approach and they buy it completely

@yetiCodes antifa hates Biden and neo libs. Also we had similar riots under Obama but they were short lived. Obama implemented police reform and pushed for body cams. That initiative took a pressure cooker situation and kept it subdued. With Trump he basically gave the peaceful protestors on the foot ball field the middle finger. The riots weren’t about political loyalty it was about police reform and if you explicitly take that off the table as a possibility you don’t release the pressure valve of that situation.

Anyone that resorts to unprovoked violence or destruction of property are criminals and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I reject the idea that it is an expression of free speech. There are way too many avenues for getting your point across today that does not require violence and wanton destruction to make yourself heard. And I am someone who is sympathetic to the BLM movement and thinks that justice reform is badly needed.

Alex jones pretty much has a private army at this point and that's never a good sign

What your opinion on the democrats who testified on irregularities or illegal ballot counting? And if this were true-wouldn’t we expect an equal number of Democratic affidavits in which democrat poll watchers report similar experiences after months of being told that the fascist was going to try to steal the election?

They are cherry picking poll watchers

Didn’t the poll watchers come forward on their own accord?

Most of the affidavits in support of Trump came weeks after the election after the race was called for Biden. Biden's supporters didn't need to come forward because he won, in their eyes.

In which capacity? The AZ and PA hearings?

I remember reading affidavits just days after, maybe even the next day. I guess that’s just my memory I’m going off of.

There were videos on Twitter DAY OF Election Day, of republicans poll watchers being kicked out

The Trump lawyers collected lots of affidavits sympathetic to their bias they put them in lawsuits and when those were deemed poor arguments brought them out in these "hearings" not hearings in PA and GA it's not a representative sample of all witnesses

Why do you say sympathetic towards their bias, do you mean in support of their case? When i read that it just makes me believe you’re biased lol

Now in Michigan they opened it up to the public and had 500 folks show up which included many experts on certification and lawyers involved but then also neutral not democrat witnesses

There was also stories of republican poll watchers being extremely disruptive. Spam challenging every Biden vote. This happened all over the country. Also keep in mind that the official poll watchers never left. There are the public poll watchers and the poll watchers inside @AdvanceManExtraordinaire

They said Democrat poll watcher were abiding by the rules, election officials did their job professionally, and GOP poll watchers were full blown Karenosaurus on everyone

Spam challenging votes does not threaten the integrity of them.

Violating social distancing rules, spitting on workers, screaming or chanting stop the vote on the counting floor. Demanding a supervisor throw out a table full of ballots because a vote counter had no nametag.

Spam challenging the votes violates the rules challenges are to be made in good faith

Are there any affidavits you can point to of this occurring?

I haven't seen what happened today in AZ, but I only saw one person in Rudy's PA show (it wasn't a hearing) who identified as Democrat. She only attested to people not following exact procedures. The main story that she told was about needing a specific person to sign and authorize a request for provisional ballot. She did not testify that they attempted to let someone vote provisionally that they should not have. Other than that, she described a tense situation at a polling place that may be hyper sensitive to non-minorities that may be trying to suppress the vote. That is not fraud and she was only brought there to make it seem like "even Dems saw things that showed fraud", but that is not what she said,

They tried to get more Republicans than legally allowed and claimed they were not allowed to watch when there was over 100 Republicans watching.

They are all dated...

@AdvanceManExtraordinaire it’s unnecessarily slows down the process. Plus you have people banging on glass windows and yelling. The public poll watchers weren’t kicked for no reason. There are countless stories of republican poll watchers being disruptive. Not to mention the official poll watchers in the room never left.

Her testimony showed that employees were attempting to break the legal process and used intimidation to do so. That’s pretty bad...

@AdvanceManExtraordinaire, you just advanced to level 5!

She did not attest to any fraud.

we need to start ignoring people like james and dedkraken. they are disrupting constructive conversations from reasonable people on both side of the political spectrum

do not reply or engage with them

She witnessed a person come in to invalidate an absentee vote and replace it with their own, and the employee there used physical intimidation to make her break the legal process for doing that properly.

Yes, fraud is something different and specific. But it points to a process of illegally counting ballots. Using physical intimidation.