temperature

https://wirepoints.org/gun-violence-has-killed-23-times-more-chicago-youth-than-covid-wirepoints-quicktake/

Depending on how precise you need to be, those issues of scale become more and more relevant.

E.g: Ballistics.

Versus engineering.

I have to stop procrastinating now, and get some shit done. Yes. It is shit. It is literary references for a report. 😭

ew

Good luck!

Good talk, see you later.

[im not saying thanks, as that is considered bad luck]

Did my well-wishes respond with a bad outcome yesterday at the range?

@Maw ???

Then you have Zuckerberg's "Get out the Vote" handing hundreds of millions of dollars to Democrats and democratic geographic areas actually placing 'mail drop-off your vote boxes all over w/o any security.
Then you have Mayor Rudy with a great Law lesson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJlzAgadYtk

@Roberto Hurstez, you just advanced to level 1!

I would like to propose a thought experiment. Let's stipulate the following:

1) There was absolutely fraud... There always is some fraud. Some get caught some don't. I believe that there are people on both sides of the political spectrum that are willing to do what it takes to help their chosen candidate win. I think it has been that way for a long time. It sucks and every single one that is caught should be prosecuted. I think that most election officials know that this is going to happen and while they'll do everything they can to prevent it, they will spend the majority of that effort to prevent wide-spread fraud, because they know that ultimately the small time fraud is a zero sum game as neither side is more or less likely to partake.

2) President Trump has told his supporters repeatedly for at least 7 months that there would be massive fraud and that the only way he would lose is if Biden and/or his supporters cheated.

3) After the 2016 election, the DHS has been working to make elections more secure. In 2018, Trump formalized this effort by creating the CISA group and handpicked Chris Krebs to head it. This group established standards for voter equipment certification, implemented sophisticated anti-hacking measures, implemented video surveillance at counting facilities (many live-streamed), encouraged states to replace systems that didn't have paper ballot backups that could be used to verify the electronic vote tallies.

4) With recounts in GA and WI showing that the paper ballots match the electronically tabulated totals, if votes were flipped, someone had to have replaced real paper ballots for Trump with fake ballots for Biden (either leaving down-ballot races blank or guessing on likely down-ballot votes hoping it would be close enough) - either between the time they were cast and when they were tabulated (no flipping via Dominion needed) or after tabulation to match any flipped votes by precinct.

5) To date, only circumstantial evidence has been found. No one has found direct evidence of a conspiracy - we have not found and no whistleblower has come forward with evidence of meetings, coordination, plans, computer records, recruiting efforts, instructions, actual ballots that had been replaced by forged ones, addresses to where excessive numbers of unrelated voters were sent mail-in ballots, etc. The only evidence that has been brought forward are: a disputed history of Dominion conspiring with a dead dictator to switch votes for Biden, reports of contentious and possible suspicious behavior, and attempts to identify patterns in voting data that could support that wide-spread fraud had occurred.

Given these assumptions/facts, which is more likely?

(a) Knowing that Trump and his supporters will be diligently looking for fraud, this election is too important to leave to chance. Dems move forward with massive voter fraud. They are able to secretly recruit hundreds (probably thousands) of co-conspirators in battleground states to be willing to risk prison. They would have to make arrangements for them to be election workers, if they were not already there. These individuals would have to have known the ballot composition (down ballot candidates and measures), ballot format (to match the precint equipment - qr codes for BMD's or roller paper or regular non-standard card stock), print the replacement ballots out (either pre-filled in or have people fill them in), sneak them into the election facilities unnoticed, and meticulously, covertly switch out the votes in a coordinated fashion in all precincts with not one of them being caught red-handed with either the fake Biden ballots, the replaced real Trump ballots, or disturbing the chain of custody measures.

For massive mail-in fraud, they would need a similar level of effort and a large number of co-conspirators. They would have to find voter rolls and identify people the least likely to vote, locate their driver's license numbers or other identifying information needed to request a ballot, arrange addresses to send the ballots to (using fake Id and credit cards to rent mailboxes, apartments, homes), collect the ballots at each location, fill out the ballots for Biden (but vote Rep down ballot to throw them off) with signatures close enough to match (because many states contact voters to allow them to cure their votes and this would tip them off), and return them without raising suspicion.

Or

(b) Knowing that some fraud would occur and understanding human behavior, President Trump made a calculation... If he made enough noise about the 2020 election being rigged and "deputized" his base to do everything possible to find the proof of this fraud, that his supporters would answer his call. And they sure did. Every Trump supporter that was involved with the election was focused on being hyper-vigilant. Every mail-in ballot was someone trying to be fraudulent. Every person pulling a cart, talking near a van, who didn't seem to want to be overheard, that was trying diligently to work as efficiently as possible... they were all suspects. A nerdy election worker was the object of ridicule and accused of "palming" a thumb drive - he was doxed and rcvd death threats (later found to just be doing his job). Every disagreement was someone of nefarious intent.

Part of this calculation was knowing that most of the battleground states have Republican legislatures, federal courts (including US SC) are very conservative, Republicans have the outright majority in the Senate, and a majority of delegates in the House. If President Trump could sow enough doubt, he might be able to get the state legislatures to overturn their voters and send a slate of electors for him. Failing that, he might be able to get the courts to invalidate the votes in those states - ensuring that Biden doesn't get 270 and the the House gets to decide who's President. Failing that, if enough challenges to state's electors are made by the US Congress and upheld in both houses, Biden could be prevented for getting 270 that way - and again the House decides who's president.

So... which is more plausible? Did a cadre of Democrat super villains pull off the greatest, most coordinated heist in the history of the world while leaving no direct evidence (so far) under the watchful eye of the most powerful man in the world who *knew* absolutely that it was going to happen and with the capabilities and resources of the NSA, FBI, SS, DOJ, and the entire federal government... was powerless to stop it from happening.

Or is this more likely to be the largest example of GroupThink confirmation bias that was orchestrated by the Trump campaign to sow doubts in the outcome of the election in the hopes that they might be able to leverge their advantages in the states and federal legislatures?

Or is there another possible explanation that we should consider?

@TaLoN132 is a prolific writer.

I've long wondered about the hows of 'electronics votes' matching the 'paper votes' I believe it is that all the paper votes are put into/counted in/on electronics . It's not like the papers are counted and then put into electronic form.

Volume is fine... but I was going for quality. Or, at least, a qualitative discussion.

@TaLoN132 is very intelligent, insightful, salient, with very sober emotion free commentary and analysis

Thank you.... Much appreciated.

As stated above:

Pick a state and create a process for executing fraud at the scale required to alter the election out come, accounting for the state's laws and processes and post it.

No mental gymnastics. please.

@TaLoN132 I feel like people who might benefit the most from that exercise are probably the same who wouldn't read the whole thing. No offense.

@TaLoN132 Very well written. And its absolutely a good point. Given the scale of fraud and conspiracy that would be needed to pull this off is massive. So massive as to, in my mind, be ridiculous to suggest it happened. Particularly when there has been no evidence that would go to prove that level of fraud and conspiracy.

p.s.
Before anyone says it I am not saying there is no evidence at all.... I know that affidavits are evidence. I know that video is evidence. However, I am referring to reliable evidence that tends to prove the claim. I have seen none so far.

My question is do the number of ballots counted match votes cast. When people show up to vote and are told that they have already voted, that is evidence of illegal votes being injected.

Info about the 2018 Executive Order on Imposing Certain Sanctions in the Event of Foreign Interference in a United States Election. This is a breakdown but the podcast at the end is INFINITELY SCARY. https://trump.news/2020-12-04-situation-update-dec-4th-offensive-cyber-warfare-mechanisms.html#

As far as I know, it is part of every election procedure to go through an audit and canvass exercise to ensure just that. It's why you hear about precincts being out of balance in MI. They total the number of people known to have cast a ballot and compare it to the number of ballots that were tabulated. Not everybody votes for every race/measure, so the total votes may not match the number of ballots, but they cannot exceed them, obviously (except in races where more than one candidate can be selected).

So glad you are here... I would love to get your input on the thought experiment I posed just a little bit ago. Starting here: https://discordapp.com/channels/760945067107680286/771201221145919499/784832307219136612

I think you need a podcast 😁

I think that this is the type of discussion that we need as a collection of unique individuals in order to better understand that there are so many ways to look at the situation we find ourselves in. I don't think this is the only way to explain things, but talking about it in a way that allows for the sincere exchange of ideas can only help. I want to know the different ways to look at this. If I am missing something, I want to know. I will absorb the information and it will become part of my perspective regardless if I ultimately agree or not. Knowledge/opinion/experiences that are respectfully given and respectfully received/considered is rarely a bad thing.

WOW. Very interesting indeed. https://twitter.com/juliansrum/status/1335082427618832385?s=12

That's sad... Hate to see stuff like that.

Scary business!

I hate to see that too

Me too 🙁

I think you did an AMAZING JOB(my opinion of course) of intelligently outlining your perspective of the whole picture and pointing out your valid reasoning behind it. If your goal is to get that opinion out there and find similar likeminded individuals, I feel like you would be better served dedicating that time to a podcast. There is a thirst for information out there and I think you eloquently present the water for it.

Get paid for the work😁

In my thinking with the current system only operator error with illegally obtained mail ballots could cause mistakes, but not at the scale required to change the election for POTUS. The system operator error, could be addressed by having all of November or October 3rd - November 3rd as a voting month time frame to address voting system infrastructure throughput and social distancing concerns, with no information system changes required. The possibility of illegally obtained ballots could be mitigated with a 2nd factor of request like a phone system auto call back or SMS with https link check to confirm ballot request or by some other automated means.