There was 257619 ballots counted but their totals of votes there was supposed to be was like 400 more or less I wasnt sure which. Theres some amount of errors like this especially when you have lots working long hours.

Anyway, long story short so I'm not conspiracy theorizing here, there haven't been any confirmed announcements of arrests in relation to fraudulent vote efforts. But in my personal observations, I can see the possibility of opsec as being an important factor to consider, so I can't dismiss that it's a possibility.

I lived in the U.P. as a kid. My dad was stationed at KI Sawyer AFB. Loved it there, but don't miss the snow. I can drive an hour from here in OC CA and see snow whenever I want.

I understand your concerns about Wayne County and you are obviously closer to the situation than I am, but I had some issues/questions with the testimony that was provided in the Senate hearing - especially that of Dr. Travers, who I figure was their star witness. During her testimony, she mentioned several times about Wayne county in general, but specifically, Detroit, (I think - I am doing this from memory) was 71 or 72% out of balance and called into question the validity of 72% of the vote. However, not once did she mention that over the 159 (I think) precincts, they were only out of balance 441 votes. To call into question the validity of 72% of the vote when only out of balance by a total of 441 votes is intellectually dishonest which made me question her motives - because as an expert she would have to know.

Then, she related a story where she was at a voting office and she witnessed an individual dropping off 50 votes and said that she knew that it was a felony to do so and... Did nothing about it. She didn't call the police report the election clerk who accepted the votes... nothing. That would have been great to point to documentation to support her story, but she didn't provide any and admitted to witnessing a felony in progress without reporting it.

I also took issue with the way she called the precincts in Detroit "lazy" for not balancing. Those are large precincts and finding the error that caused them to be in most cases under 5 ballots out of balance would be cost prohibitive. That's why they choose to certify.

Lastly, the law that says you can't audit an out of balance precinct is non-sensical... Ridiculous the Rep controlled legislature should change that immediately.

If you balance every McDonalds register in the country it could be plus or minus thousands of dollars. But as long as 1 register isnt missing 1000 dollars they let it slide.

> @TaLoN132 Lastly, the law that says you can't audit an out of balance precinct is non-sensical... Ridiculous the Rep controlled legislature should change that immediately.
I'd drink to that. I mean, I can admire someone dedicated to their job as to investigate even a meager 441 votes before submitting to the state board of canvassers. But the way she was treated in her public hearing zoom call was inappropriate and appalling. She'd since had to move out of her home since she and her children were being targeted.

The number of registers with wrong change is absolutely more 😅

I'll be transparent in that I'm not all that clear on what constitutes what is "in" or "out" of balance, but I look at that Wayne county report and see those zero registered voters for certain precincts and have several questions.

Theres a reason she got called out though. She just flat out said I'm going to certify all the white suburban neighborhoods with hundreds of votes off but detroit I'm gonna take your 250k votes. But beyond that they dont have the power to investigate as an administrative board so they utterly violated civil rules that these types of boards have followed election after election. So this was seen as a large abuse of power. Both sides shouldn't have been as emotional for sure. I'm just disappointed 1 one state guy still said I dont care what the law says let's hunt for fraud.

Well, when they get that fishing license I'm sure they'll catch a fair few fish.

@Recalibar, you just advanced to level 4!

There is folks on the local level that do checks and things before passing the final numbers on to the board I dont know what all those positions are called but some of then spoke at the hearing.

I'd love to see some testimony from those folks, to be sure. The people doing their jobs with signed affidavits they were IAW the law. Any of those folks come forward?

You sign affidavits when there is a court involved. There is no legal action on that side

There's like, no countertestimony to any of these witnesses coming forward alleging that there was wrongdoing involved.

Why would there be

Afaik

The are just saying things that can’t be verified

They can be cross-referenced.

No one can say they didn’t see the unverifiable thing they thought they saw

The video thing was refuted

Person x's testimony lines up with person y's testimony and person z's testimony etc. It builds a story.

You don’t need a affidavit for that

Seems the largest precinct is around 1850 voters....I can't imagine how anyone can't keep ballots cast vs registered voters balanced in numbers that small. I've checked in more "members" to country clubs in a day than that and we didn't have any non-members on the course.

https://www.waynecounty.com/documents/clerk/nov20_votestats.pdf

Sure... But that's not the smoking gun of massive voter fraud.

@Recalibar when an actual defendant is in court then they would have a legal team and get affidavits and witnesses at that point

Sure, let me pull up the Arizona case where these testimonies were presented...

And I must point out that I let the obvious "Country Club" reference alone... Though, I was tempted. 😉

I’ve seen much of these hearings @Recalibar

They are just claims , you would not expect countering affidavits

What would they even say

No but some MI townships had massively high numbers of registered voters vs residents....as high as over 700%....in the UPDATED affidavit of Ramsland's. I'm sure whatever assistant put the original info together accidentally copied MN townships in but the updated one most definitely reflects Michigan townships.

WORKING at a country club is NOT the same as being a member....I've been working class all my life.

But Michigan is also HUGE on golf courses....TONS of them.

Do they do golfing tournaments in the snow like they play football in the snow

I believe but not 100% theres an election manager in the counting center organizing then supervisors employees and independent observers. The results are counted but then given to the city or township clerk which is kind of like a math/record keeper role. They can go back if something is way off and check out what's up. The board is supposed to gather all the tallies from the county and make sure all precincts are there. Missing number or math issues that kind of thing but they tally and pass to state. States the same. Then once certified lawyers and laws on the books can come in to audit recount look for fraud on the final results. This seemed the case in Michigan at least states can setup different. Most state or counties have random audits so they dont have to pay to heavily check everything but can catch wrongdoing.

@Dedkraken, you just advanced to level 22!

We closed during snow.

Maybe not, I'll admit that I'm not familiar enough with law to be certain on this, but what I would say is that I'm partial to believing people who are criminally liable to getting prosecuted for false statement than those who aren't. I would appreciate if people came forward with signed affidavit claims there wasn't any of this alleged wrongdoing involved. Instead all I see are incredibly competent lawyers.

They are not criminally liable. You can’t disprove a unverifiable assertion. They have nothing to lose @Recalibar

That’s the only way you get in trouble

And if you qualify with “this is what I think I saw” or “appears to me”