no problem

everyone is a virologist now.

proves my point ... delay is not the same as prevention

@DeathRhodes666 you are talking about cops using force. I am talking about running a Medicare system. Even with the high tax rate they still pay less a year compare to us. It’s cheaper any way you slice it

facts bounce off @james j like a rubber ball

@meglide no if it’s preventable you don’t spend as much money as if you got it early in life

You don’t seem to understand this

It’s the time with the disease spent which gets expensive

By looking at that Chart, per capita they are probably worse?

Federal Government using force. And just like how they've continuously shown they can't do really anything without causing more damage or injury in the process, their methods would translate right on over to the healthcare industry. Perfect example of government-run healthcare: the VA.

you don't seem to understand the difference in delay and prevention ... you don't seem to understand later in life care expense not being self-imposed ... lots you seem not to be getting

@meglide if we did what Sweden did we would do much worse. That our numbers with half the population being cautious.

@james j Federal government and state governments should not be involved in anything they are not originally allowed or stated as having the ability to be involved in. It destroys more than creates, bogs down more than frees up, and costs more than reduces costs.

look at that chart again, it's on a per million basis so thus scaled to population ... @Maw see what I mean?

let me know if you want a rather interesting and political incorrect fact on sweden and the pandemic.

i'm interested

Sure. Why not mix it up...

@meglide 80 percent is preventable. That means your current heart patients are self induced and get it earlier in life. Meaning the duration of having the disease is longer. If you happen to be 80 years old and get heart disease you may only suffer with it for 4 or 5 years but if someone got it at 50 he suffer with it for 10+ years. Thus more money spent

@DeathRhodes666 I think they should

@DeathRhodes666 sweden imported large amounts of people during the 90ies, 2000s and 2010s. Now not needed as workforce, and outside society. They are the ones dying now.

Its why sweden isnt up in arms.

They are actually saving cash.

@meglide again that’s with half the population following one behavior set vs the other half

@Doc. I would be interested in looking at their Expected Deaths Numbers?

@William Dinan Im lying down now, but its a date. I can google in swedish. Ill look for it tomorrow.

like I said you don't listen (know of lots of counter-examples) ... more folks are living into their 80's precisely because modern medicine allows folks to live longer with medical conditions that would have killed them earlier in the past

That's where we disagree. Governments should only be involved at the most minimal level possible. Anything that involves making decisions for the country's citizens on a personal level is not something they need or should be involved in.

Thanks. It's only one Data Point. It may be interesting.

@meglide yes the whole time spending money to keep them alive , money that need not be spent

@DeathRhodes666 no

If you take care of yourself you spend less money in your later years and for a shorter duration @DeathRhodes666

yes they could all just die young like in the past and then social security and medicare wouldn't pose such a financial problem ... got it

Or they could just not get heart disease in the first place and not need medication to stay alive @meglide these people would have lived to 80 without heart disease and taxing the system

And where should the government be involved in making the personal decisions to take care of yourself?

If people took care of themselves they could retire later than 65 @meglide

@DeathRhodes666 it’s not a personal decision. It’s just access to preventive care. A healthy society is a productive , smarter and more happy society

Or simply ration Medical Care on a age basis and return on investment?

you are so thick-headed you don't know what you are talking about ... put on your thinking cap for a second and consider what was the average life span 100 yrs ago prior to modern medicine? what percent lived into their 80's?

@meglide again our care went up but so did our crappy diets. People used to die from infections not heart disease in the past.

Then wouldn't better nutritional education be the better option? Or even start a culture of healthy living an eating? Both of which do not require government involvement at all?

or if they saved up they could retire earlier ... retirement and health are somewhat unrelated, although lots of folks health goes up in retirement