Yea @Whithers I think local might be the most stable answer. Rather than a national mandate from a supreme court, let the states fight out the certification stuff locally and come to local conclusions. Might make people less dictated to by the feds. Or it might be a total disaster.

The US hasn't followed the constitution for over 100 years and all one needs to do is read the congressional records. Even the Supreme Court knew this in 1901. Read the dissenting opinion by Justice Mashall Harlan in the Downs vs Bidwell case from 1901 . He spells it out real clearly.

I think every conservative would accept that, and every authoritarian centralized government leftist will reject it.

The entire revolutionary war was only supported by 30% of the population. It takes something like 3 to 7% to start one.

My history degree is not prompting me to optimism.

Very interesting I've never heard a figure on that.

I was in Army Intel. I was never involved with that kind of operation, but I am aware of the specs for it.

We have active insurgencies against the governments here and nothing is being done about it. That has been pissing me off.

Maintaining order takes a lot of work. Causing social breakdown not so much.

Even the revolutionary war here in the USA was a minority of the people, when it ended tons of people flocked to Canada in fear of retribution from the US victors. @Whithers is right is doesn't take many to get things going in war.

@sultnpapper I suspect that the 17th Amendment has a lot to do with losing some of our Constitutional procedures. When the Senate was appointed by the states, not popularly elected, they represented the administrative needs of the states and protected states rights (10th Amendment). But that was being used by the occupied South to protect their misbehavior. So, without the 17th I don't think we would have ever had the Wobbly Free Speech Fights which paved the way for the Civil Rights movement.

@RobertGrulerEsq I'm a software architect, so the Dominion angle really interests me. From my research on the Dominion-Smartmatic relationship, the Sequoia link is tenuous for proving a link. Sequoia is an old company that has been around since the 70's. They were the manufacturer of the infamous dimpled/hanging chad machines from the 2000 election. In 2005, they sold to Smartmatic. They were forced to sell Sequoia in 2007 to a holding company and then sold the assets to Dominion. Sequoia filed for bankruptcy in 2014. In my experience, it takes a while to integrate systems from an acquired company - longer than 2 years. I think it's interesting though, that a Sequoia is being linked to the disputes in this election given what happened 20 years ago.

If a chain of bad faith actors with an originating code shared by both companies can be made conspicuous that may be what carries it.

Also, if Dark Side Capitalist practices can be shown (corruption) in both, that will make a difference.

That's quite a long chain... What does it mean that these relationships predate the 2016 election by a lot. If they had this capability then, then what are we saying about the outcome of that election?

@Whithers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjhOEQskDtE

So @TaLoN132 it wouldn't have been ready in 2016 but ready in 2020?

Depends on personnel. If they can show persons with a history of being central to the program across 15 of those years, it is not so long a chain. A computer career at this point can have started in the 1970's and still be on going.

The united states government will never let a war start here. They'll let you seceed first and take what they can get.

If you want to see election rigging in action and exposed you need to look at a feature done by some chick named Millennial Millie where she exposed it in Kentucky elections a year or so ago. It was done by software manipulation. I'll see if I can find the link, it has been a long while since I watched it.

Possibly, but they acquired the Sequoia systems in 2010. If it was a conspiracy to rig elections, that's a long implementation.

If they were base systems already in practice or already built into the machines with similar functions it would not take 2 years. Like all the cars from Detroit being built by engineers that jack jaw at the 19th hole and then make their designs in wind tunnels built to the same specifications.

Less of a conspiracy and more of a movement generated by competitors to sell to the most corrupt dictators.

@Whithers That's my point regarding the 2016 election. This capability would have existed then.

@TaLoN132, you just advanced to level 2!

I suspect it has existed going back to punch cards.

When I dealt with IT I had people to write the shells for me. But I did flow diagrams which no one uses anymore. To pull this off effectively with the foundations going back 20 to 30 years, you would have to have someone involved that understood the original machine programming. I would think.

@Whithers, you just advanced to level 5!

You think the original programs were compiled from C, Fortran, Cobalt - or built from machine language itself?

I located that video I mentioned from Kentucky, worth looking at it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3NmZ3ceQNg

I'm not familiar enough with the punch card tabulating systems. My guess is that it went through many iterations. The scenario that Powell is promoting is that Smartmatic - being formed in FL in 1999 by Venezuelan expats - worked with Hugo Chavez in 2003 to build a system that he could use to manipulate vote counts. My guess is that they acquired Sequoia more for their e-Voting system that was relatively new, at that time. Given that we are talking about post 2000, the voting machines are likely running a fairly modern OS and they are developed on a relatively recent development environment (possibly Linux/Java or Windows/VB). The management and tabulation systems are likely run on a PC. Complete speculation on my part given the age of the founders of Smartmatic.

It seems that with the Georgia hand recount affirming the count, that the idea that Dominion (they use Dominion statewide) is switching or deleting votes via some embedded backdoor functionality becomes less and less likely. It also puts a damper on the assertion that votes were switched on a foreign server. It also shows that bad faith actors did not process the same stacks of ballots multiple times to jack up the vote for their chosen candidate. It really only leaves the option of what @RobertGrulerEsq was suggesting about vote replacement in the last step of the chain of custody. Mail-in ballots being replaced for one candidate being replaced with ballots for another. But why wouldn't they have tried to affect the downstream ballot races?

I am not convinced. I remember a lot of corporate systems, especially security oriented ones, were running in DOS back then. MS was still trying to convince every one that the crap they pulled in the 90's wasn't still an issue.

Hubris. They did not think they could lose the down stream races because they were focused on Trump.

My reasoning is using the Smartmatic - Venezuela connection as the starting point - as Sidney Powell has asserted.

Understood. Mine is about who would be the experts and what experience did those experts have in what systems.

For the Democrats the idea that Trump could take away 30 or more pts of any minority vote is unfathomable.

@RobertGrulerEsq If you don't believe you are losing your base and you are losing large chunks of your base, you have a blindside on down stream votes. You only focus on the top of the pyramid where you think it is only Trump's evil personality and everyone else will suddenly realize your superior Leftist morality as soon as he can no longer cast spells.

Huh?

Robert isn't a leftist.

@Maw No one said Robert is a Leftist. He asked why the Dems didn't pay attention to the downstream votes if they were rigging elections.