My step mother was brought here by a church group to bolster their rolls when they would talk about needing donations. It took her years to escape the sweatshop they kept her in. Then Reagan was going to take her two children born here away and send herbac to Mexico. It is complicated.

with a receipt

@aiva I'm for raising the standards on voting, generally. the tax idea is of course a non-starter. but I get concerned about people voting for more and more taxes without having to pay for the increases.

@Jorgen Johnson So, dox everyone who votes for their opposition.

unless all the election software has the source code viewable and auditable by the public i will never trust it

@RobertGrulerEsq I think we should have standards for voting.

If you are citizen of a country and are bound to honor the laws of a government you should have a say in who gets to make those laws. I get the skin in the game argument, but that’s the skin, not just money.

@RobertGrulerEsq any discussion on the subject gets you met with YOU JUST WANT TO DISENFRANCHISE <insert identity group> VOTERS

@aiva OR, you could claim that to get the right to vote, you first have the duty to educate yourself.

@aiva To be honest I go farther. I agree with Heinlein. If you don't serve in uniform (military or non-military), then you can only be a legal resident.

@Whithers we seem to be converging backwards in time....

@Doc I agree. That’s why I don’t vote. Not interested innpolitics to make educated opinions. I don’t complain about who gets voted in either.

@aiva, you just advanced to level 1!

@Whithers bringing up the starship troopers argument 😛

@ImNotGas You bet. All those that don't have the guts to die for the country.

civilian v. citizen

Most of the country (and world) agrees with you @aiva

@RobertGrulerEsq, you just advanced to level 6!

@Whithers if the military was just for defense I might agree with you

You automatically become a citizen if you join the military.

@aiva Not all uniform services are military. There is also the health dept. and NOAA.

@Whithers I'd modify it to include some form of civil service, like a form of USAID coast guard etc

merchant marines

Doctors?

Not join a uniform service, successfully complete a tour of duty.

Or be a land-owner that is not a woman as originally intended. 😉

well if taxation implies representation then logically no representation implies no taxation BUT no taxation does not necessarily imply no representation ... maybe I should move to Puerto Rico like Peter Schiff?

@TaLoN132 I was quoting Socrates. He didnt care about land. Just levels of insight.

I would restructure the military also. 3 armed branches: Intel, Navy, Marines, and 3 not armed: Medical, Science, and Conservation.

well, not quoting...but...referencing.

@meglide doesn't sound like a bad idea!

I would make bad things illegal

and good things legal

Leave it to you Europeans to go all brainy on us...

I know people who go their whole career without completing a tour of duty

i know people who go their whole career partying in yongsan

@meglide We tried that no taxation thing. The govt. went bankrupt because no one wanted to pay for it.

We have been dealing with the demand for free stuff since 1776.

@TaLoN132 If that was true Europe would not be in such a sorry state.

anyone play chess?

I know a lot of brainy people that lack commonsense... If I were brainy that might be me.