Message from @Advocatus Diaboli

Discord ID: 450691031764303872


2018-05-28 16:01:50 UTC  

no but his arguments are gonna end up lost if its just a mess of anti-coms typing, let him speak

2018-05-28 16:02:13 UTC  

Go ahead I'm listening

2018-05-28 16:02:20 UTC  

They began taking food away from peasants in 1916 beacuse of food shortages and speculating

2018-05-28 16:02:27 UTC  

Then the Civil War started

2018-05-28 16:02:50 UTC  

Of because of the war, you know, just a little something called WW1

2018-05-28 16:03:00 UTC  

ah i see so the EMPIRE took food but the Communists didn't

2018-05-28 16:03:01 UTC  

Russian industry was small, so they couldn't produce goods for trade and had to concentrate on making weapons

2018-05-28 16:03:02 UTC  

I see

2018-05-28 16:03:06 UTC  

excellent reasoning

2018-05-28 16:03:17 UTC  

even though prior to the revolution

2018-05-28 16:03:26 UTC  

Russia was the second fastest growing economy in the world

2018-05-28 16:03:27 UTC  

So communists had to adopt these policies as well

2018-05-28 16:03:33 UTC  

"policies"

2018-05-28 16:03:43 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/450683222653796353/450690644315340810/image.png

2018-05-28 16:03:50 UTC  

that's a really thuggish way of saying "lets kill off millions of people because they dont give us their wheat"

2018-05-28 16:04:05 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/450683222653796353/450690737638604800/image.png

2018-05-28 16:04:05 UTC  

what ever happened to workers owned the means of production

2018-05-28 16:04:31 UTC  

What do you mean?

2018-05-28 16:04:53 UTC  

The means of production were owned by the workers

2018-05-28 16:05:07 UTC  

May I continue?

2018-05-28 16:05:15 UTC  

So

2018-05-28 16:05:45 UTC  

Bolsheviks gave the big landlords' property to the peasants who divided it equally

2018-05-28 16:06:23 UTC  

But these small farms weren't effective enough and couldn't supply Russia with all the food it needed

2018-05-28 16:06:46 UTC  

But communists had to deal with it during the NEP

2018-05-28 16:06:58 UTC  

how were they when the people who owned the means of production were not allowed to sell their productions?

2018-05-28 16:07:19 UTC  

Ownership =/= right to sell

2018-05-28 16:07:38 UTC  

How can you sell anything if you're the only possible owner?

2018-05-28 16:07:55 UTC  

The government can still block private owners from selling under capitalism, if it wishes. So that isn't really relevant @Adoring Fan

2018-05-28 16:08:03 UTC  

This too

2018-05-28 16:08:06 UTC  

So

2018-05-28 16:08:30 UTC  

Capitalist America is hella comfy

2018-05-28 16:08:31 UTC  

During the NEP communists allowed private enterprises to rebuild the country ASAP

2018-05-28 16:08:40 UTC  

@Fuju if it wishes, yet it doesn't do that nearly to the extent that the soviet union did.

2018-05-28 16:08:53 UTC  

So what?

2018-05-28 16:09:12 UTC  

NEP was actually a policy of state capitalism like in China today

2018-05-28 16:09:12 UTC  

The workers still owned the mp, and that's what matters regarding your original question.

2018-05-28 16:09:44 UTC  

then what is the merit of owning the means of production? You can do nothing with it

2018-05-28 16:10:22 UTC  

@GucciToiletSalesman not really no.

2018-05-28 16:10:25 UTC  

You can take part in deciding how the money should be spent

2018-05-28 16:11:22 UTC  

You do realise that question would apply to both private and publicly owned means of production, right? @Adoring Fan

2018-05-28 16:11:50 UTC  

@Advocatus Diaboli that is like saying you can take part in elections. Your one vote changes nothing