Message from @Mr.J
Discord ID: 498192823359766549
its not subject to someone's beliefs
Interesting
here's the thing write if i make you lemonade I know for a fact i made it; but I can't say for a fact the lemons came from X tree unless i picked them; and a lot of science is pointing at theoretical tree's saying see the lemons came from this one; while leaving all the other "tree's" of thought up in the air out of ignorance
I think what you are trying to say here is that lemons is where money comes from
that is an interesting theory I'll have to give some thought to
So would you both agree with the statement that fact is a thing that cannot be cast into doubt?
just because the majority believe in something doesn't make it a fact
Mhm.
in fact, the majority have been duped into believing false and provably wrong beliefs
ya "true" pure facts are far and few between; most of them are objective and half lies
Okay, so Mr. J seems to agree with the statement.
Kevin, do you?
ulcers is one example, where people thought it was caused by worry and we eventually learned it is curable in most cases
no, truth is something that is true, no matter if everyone agrees to the contrary
That's not what I asked
its true regardless of what people think and regardless of what facts they present that people believe
like the globe for instance
most people have been duped into believing this fairy tale
Mate, I'm asking you to define something. That kind of does not work if you use the terms I'm asking for a defintion of.
what I'm telling you is truth is the truth
hell most people believe this "reality" is the reality of matter; that this is ground 0 when we are just an expression of spirituality bound within the constraints of a greater system of "beliefes" etc
facts are useless because reality is defined by the individual
some facts are malleable that can be distorted to change public opinion but they aren't truth
Kevin, that doesn't mean anything because you haven't told me what truth is. If I said Yog-Sothoth is Yog-Sothoth, you say: "What is Yog-Sothoth?"
real facts are truth, not manufactured facts
truth is the opposite of a lie
I'm asking for a positive claim; saying it isn't X or Y doesn't help.
if a kid steals something and tell you he stole it, he's telling you the truth
you can believe he's telling you a lie, but it doesn't change the fact that its the truth
Okay, so you believe "truth" is a proposition that is in accordance with a material reality?
The sentence: "I am typing right now," is true becaue it's happening.
I believe truth is the truth regardless of what reality it happens to be in
So you think truth transcends reality, in a certain way?
some truth might be limited to the reality it finds itself, there can be alternate truths depending on the rules of that reality
truth is bound within experince; one's truth can be a lie to another
truth is not subjective
Well, Kevin, you said truth wasn't relative; you're now claiming it's relative to the limits of a reality in which it could exist in.
what I believe doesn't matter in terms of truth
like if i tell you i'm working hard; from anothers point of view it may look as tho i'm "working" up to hard not working through it and "thus" hard
I seek the truth, and use logic to determine what makes sense
whether I can determine that doesn't mean I will always find truth