What's a fact?

a fact is something I have bought into

its completely subject to my beliefs

(this is a joke)

Some epistemologists do buy into relativism

didn't I already say truth isn't relative

its not subject to someone's beliefs

Interesting

here's the thing write if i make you lemonade I know for a fact i made it; but I can't say for a fact the lemons came from X tree unless i picked them; and a lot of science is pointing at theoretical tree's saying see the lemons came from this one; while leaving all the other "tree's" of thought up in the air out of ignorance

I think what you are trying to say here is that lemons is where money comes from

that is an interesting theory I'll have to give some thought to

So would you both agree with the statement that fact is a thing that cannot be cast into doubt?

just because the majority believe in something doesn't make it a fact

Mhm.

in fact, the majority have been duped into believing false and provably wrong beliefs

ya "true" pure facts are far and few between; most of them are objective and half lies

Okay, so Mr. J seems to agree with the statement.

Kevin, do you?

ulcers is one example, where people thought it was caused by worry and we eventually learned it is curable in most cases

no, truth is something that is true, no matter if everyone agrees to the contrary

That's not what I asked

its true regardless of what people think and regardless of what facts they present that people believe

like the globe for instance

most people have been duped into believing this fairy tale

Mate, I'm asking you to define something. That kind of does not work if you use the terms I'm asking for a defintion of.

what I'm telling you is truth is the truth

hell most people believe this "reality" is the reality of matter; that this is ground 0 when we are just an expression of spirituality bound within the constraints of a greater system of "beliefes" etc

facts are useless because reality is defined by the individual

some facts are malleable that can be distorted to change public opinion but they aren't truth

Kevin, that doesn't mean anything because you haven't told me what truth is. If I said Yog-Sothoth is Yog-Sothoth, you say: "What is Yog-Sothoth?"

real facts are truth, not manufactured facts

truth is the opposite of a lie

I'm asking for a positive claim; saying it isn't X or Y doesn't help.

if a kid steals something and tell you he stole it, he's telling you the truth

you can believe he's telling you a lie, but it doesn't change the fact that its the truth

Okay, so you believe "truth" is a proposition that is in accordance with a material reality?

The sentence: "I am typing right now," is true becaue it's happening.

I believe truth is the truth regardless of what reality it happens to be in

So you think truth transcends reality, in a certain way?

some truth might be limited to the reality it finds itself, there can be alternate truths depending on the rules of that reality

truth is bound within experince; one's truth can be a lie to another