that was dark even by my fucking standards

@Crye_Salesman Fair enough, as Americans, it’s anyone’s right to not be forced to believe in God and to live their life as long as they aren’t harming or infringing on others.

Oh man what did I miss in there

The question was on the separation of church and state and the religious subtext in the constitution

church and state should ***always*** be separated

I mean I would like to clarify @Karlow Alderam, that this is a philosophical discussion, I have no problem with people of any religion, I just like to debate

My bad. Ive got terribly dark humor. And unfortunate experience in that. Not from church but personally non the less

@minorthreat but does that negate the declaration of rights all bc it mentioned God?

Eh I think we could chop that up to period, and just replace it with natural rights?

You have the rights you're willing to take and defend

well technically

I don't care if God says you can or can't rape my kids. I said you can't, and I have a gun

@Karlow Alderam that was my question

the constitution doesn't mention God specifically does it? it just says the creator

True

@Crye_Salesman I don’t mind discussions either bro man. We as Americans are at least called to be moral men, with balls of steel, who will go above and beyond to secure freedom and prosperity for our nation and their peoples.

@Bender the founders mentioned Providence and the creator, specifically avoided God

To avoid alienation

"peoples", that's a third rail lol

founding fathers were fucking BASED

I’m not religious I just enjoy the discussion with level headed people

except for the owning slaves part

i dont like that part

but other than that they were based as fuck

Did They Really Though

yes they did

Not all were fans of slavery

but they can be wrong about *that* and be right about everything else

There were people who almost refused to sign the constitution because slavery wasn’t ended then

Fisher Ames was right about stuff too

The founders were a coalition of different people with different backgrounds and different beliefs

The British could have tried to get them to argue religion and race and politics but nope

It was burgertime

@Bender I don’t think all the founders owned slaves, did they? That took money and enough land to justify the purchase. Maybe some of them did, but that’s just the way it was, this is one example of how tradition can be reprehensible.

not all of them, but some did

washington and jefferson to name a few

Tradition is the democracy of the dead. They don't have to have the veto but they deserve a vote

If tradition is oppressive you're a slave

@Jon What do you mean, “peoples is a third rail”

God in the Christian/ Jewish form . natures God, the presence of God, yes but they didnt want an established church or the smell of one so didnt mention a particular religions god.
Not to mention that most of them were deists and humanists