It's in Dubai as it can't be anywhere else.

@fallot I think the other axis of the hierarchies thing we were talking about is the difference between people who view society as moving toward some better, higher, more perfect state of humanity and away from our fundamental nature. And people who see things as more cyclical or eternal and accept the fundamental human nature.

And the linear view is a very christian, particularly a very protestant view

Moldbug is right about the modern left being basically nothing more than secular protestants from some perspectives. That's why they freak out whenever any right wing thing happens - because it's not supposed to happen in a very visceral, fabric-of-reality sense

They have the reaction to non-linearity in politics that people in lovecraft stories have to Dagon or whatever

*the thing that should not be*

@UOC I think that's the same axis

a Christian can see society moving towards an ideal of godliness

Well I think it's particularly protestant to see a flattening of hierarchies as moving closer to "heaven"

I can see it as two axes but I would agree that we're only in like one quadrant of the plane or whatever

I don't think that's specifically protestant, rather such a mindset proliferated amongst westerners who became protestant

first

probably because of their own rebellion against hierarchy

modern religious protestants are anything but this

Yeah I tend to agree, I think people are less motivated by religion and more often use religion to achieve their goals

subconsciously maybe

modern protestants in the US vary. I have a weird degree of insight into this due to very religious parents lol

but I think you're broadly right about the religious ones, although Episcopalians are pretty god damn degenerate

http://charltonteaching.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/can-we-have-common-sense-without-god.html

I'm very sympathetic to religious positions in politics but I'm not ultimately very religious. I think it makes sense to develop a basis for a secular right. There are a lot of atheists and they all vote left

yeah im spiritual but not religious

I think any "secular right" is doomed to fail

it will eventually become leftism

lemme make a very basic argument to you

I won't be offended at all if you think its dumb or unworkable and it's also not very developed

please, I'd love to hear it

I don't necessarily disagree that any secular right will become leftist either, I want to explore that later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PizBVqcAn0o

@fallot https://nonaurosedferro.wordpress.com/2017/01/27/a-model-for-secular-conservative-thought/

I think I've read this before, reading

you can skim the first part, it's just background

why don't you go on while I read

nah that's the argument.

so the argument is utilitarianism

is that right?

Maybe a derivation of utilitarianism.

But more of a law and econ point about transaction costs

it's the same as prozakian nihilism

this kind of pragmatic/utilitarian ideology will always fail, it is inferior to leftism

in moral terms

I agree