Message from @Platinum Spark
Discord ID: 630830133510537219
You’ve got to go back at least to the calling of the Estates General
It’s like talking about the American Revolution and fast forwarding to writing the constitution
It was before the Declaration of the Rights of Man or the drafting of the first constitution, it is much more like talking about the American Revolution and beginning with the Declaration of Independence.
No not at all
You’re missing the entire setup
And the start of the violence
Why does the set-up and beginning of violence matter if I'm trying to illustrate that the bourgeois (in the Marxist sense) classes did not resist the abolition of feudalism?
Because the bourgeoise DID resist the abolition of feudalism
People wanted food, govt inefficient, people angry about taxes, bourgeois are lumpt with 3rd estate, 3rd estate tennis court, afterwards violence and protests
You’re just skipping the part when they did
Bourgeoise is synonymous with 3rd estate
3rd estate was basically everyone not clergy or noble
Yes, the bourgeoise
Sure in the French Revolution, but I'm not talking about the 3rd Estate. I'm talking about the possessed non-noble classes of France
Bourgeoise as in burgher
There were farmers and other professions
That’s what the 3rd estate is
Yes, that’s the bourgeoise
burgher and workers are a bit effy
Is in the bourgeoise and the 3rd estate, which are the same thing
The vast, vast majority of people
fair enough
Er, they could even have land just not be enobled
Seriously listen to Mike Duncan’s Revolutions
I think the 3rd season is the French Revolution
He goes through all of this
Sure, I'm not referring to every non-landed non-church individual, and it's inaccurate to refer to the 3rd Estate of consisting of only non-landed individuals. 51 members of the Estates General before the beginning of the revolution were non-noble land owners
When the people started marching on bastile; that was the start of the french revolution
No that was super late
As in violence and such
The day of the tiles was the start of violence
But what does any of this have to do with a rejection of the idea that the French Revolution involved a revolution against feudalism
?
Because you’re just looking at the outcome
The primary goals achieved were the abolition of feudalism, a shrinking of church authority, and a dissolution of the monarchy
The idea that the non feudal entities rose up against the feudal entities, and that the 2nd estate defended the feudal privileges while he 3rd estate fought against them, is just not in any way supported by the historical record
I didn't say that
But no one had those goals at the onset
You absolutely did