Nvm

so its 23 vs 18

See, this is my point. It's like you read the first graph and ran with it

and 23 vs an average of 22

Bearing in mind these stats are not controlled for any external variables

GG @The Lemon, you just advanced to level 20!

This is just the raw data

External variables are my argument, that being a toxic inner city culture present in both the UK and USA.

So why are you blaming it on immigrants then?

Because toxic inner city culture is unrelated to immigration

At least recent waves of immigration that we've seen

Because they are contributing to it and even entering it. They are two separate but similar issues that combine to create the perfect storm

But you can't prove that with these statistics

So why are you treating these stats like they are proof of this idea

Also as I tried to say before but you didn't listen, these statistics are to do with the overall population

They aren't for immigrants

Therefore they include millions of people who have been born and raised in the UK

I know. I **specifically** told you I was not referring specifically to immigrants

But unless I'm grossly mistaken this argument is about immigrants and the great replacement?

And you said that immigrants were bringing these non western values with them and it was causing crime

And now you are using stats unrelated to immigrants to try and back up that hypothesis?

The argument was originally regarding immigrants but sort of shifted to non western values in general, I apologize if I didn't make this clear.

ok sure

But you said there is a "definitive cultural problem" and then used these statistics

But as I've tried to say

These stats include millions of non white brits, raised in Britain, raised according to british culture in british schools in british communities

How exactly is this supposed to be representative of the cultures that immigrants are "bringing with them"

When you're using statistics that don't focus on immigrants

Sorry, missed the last few mins

What happened?

I would hardly consider some of the values "british" in the traditional sense, and once again, you keep bringing the conversation in a circle specifically when related to immigrants. I've specifically said I'm referring to *non western values,* within the UK, this includes a variety of sources. For whatever reason, ethnic minorities seem to proliferate these non western values at a higher rate then whites. Take london for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London#Violent_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London

He's arguing that immigrants bring non western values that cause a cultural shift and raise in crime rates

No, that's...jesus. You are not reading at all what I'm saying.

I've specified multiple times that I'm ***not just specifically referring to immigrants*** and then you say "hes talking'bout immigrants"

Ok fine we're talking about "non western values" in the UK which you haven't shown any evidence of then

Also you don't need to tell me that London is ethnically diverse, I live in London, I know

Yeah he does

Ok so I've just looked about that link to do with crime in london

It has absolutely nothing to do with race and I don't see why its relevant to this argument

It shows general crime statistics in london and different types of crime