And again, I am very pro free market working things out

To me, it makes perfect sense that it would sort itself out

But that's in a perfect situation where everyone is intelligent and able to switch jobs willy nilly, you know?

Correct yes

The problem comes when minimum wage tries to be a living wage

Like, a simple wrench to throw in those gears is how people need money NOW to pay for stuff. And they desire stability and stuff from their job. They get hired at a suboptimal rate, they are very likely to stay there, even if it's shitty

Very true people are like that

You can blame them for being dumb, when the next door fast food place if offering a bit more money

But it's not so simple in real life situations

Of course

And don't forget about monopolization as well as unofficial cooperation that almost certainly goes on behind closed doors

But thinking s minimum wage is going to sustain you for a long time is very foolish

Is it really that hard for businesses to band together to screw people by all offering extra low wages?

I’m sure they do that

The business is only there to make profit

Keeping costs low

Mind you this is for faceless corp who do not value their staff

There are pro people businesses

Of course

Basically, I see this a bit as a "theory" versus "practical application" type thing. In theory, it makes sense to let the free market regulate this stuff, but in practice it doesn't seem to work well.

GG @Dr.Cosby, you just advanced to level 4!

thats like any system

they never work out that great in practise 😉

So, while some kind of an overhaul of the system might make more sense, at least for shorter term solutions, playing with minimum wage is a way to offset some of the bad stuff

the issue is reforming a system completely just introduces new bad outcomes

That too. It's really tricky and full of variables

they may not be as bad in theory but they will still be there

and actually could end up worse

so sometimes its the devil you know

But as far as minimum wage goes - there are real tangible benefits. Some reported negatives as well, yes. But even if you use the "free market" model - the person you will be paying 15/hr is PROBABLY going to end up being a more valuable asset than the 7/hr guy anyways, no?

Like, you're gonna hire the best guy

And more money attracts better people

Will if fully compensate for itself? Probably not in many cases, tbh

so we do have the minimum wage though

But morally, it's good. And for society as a whole, it seems good. Your burger flipper is better at flipping his burgers (and all the other stuff that comes with the job), and he's going to have a better life, have better kids, etc

so i think a problem comes in when people expect that to be a "living" wage

its just not going to be

unless you live very frugally

But why not? Why not have the minimum be something that lets you live - again, everyone's definition of "comfortable" is different, but surely there are some basics that aren't hard to agree upon

Isn't it sadistic to have somebody work hard all day, and not be able to support themselves?

Stop imagining the lazy guy who wants to work as little as possible and wants to just "squeeze by" with handouts