Message from @Egoy
Discord ID: 506468756139016194
many people falsely associate it as a alternative
i mean if literally only technology is the barrier to full on socialism why hasnt any other coutnry done it?
if its so clear?
nordic model still employs markets. china has large privately own sectors
Well, socialism can only be established when the working class is educated enough about it or when the alienation of said class is reached to an extent, capitalism is a transitionary ideology and a global system as well, socialism is a global system
the transition to socialism is inevitable, no matter what the timescale is.
it's any ideology, like feudalism and capitalism, capitalism would fall when the circumstances call for it.
Cosma Shalizi has a good essay on why supercomputers wont be the only solution to figuring out the economic calculation problem
Well about this economic calculation, yes, I shall explain more about it
so in a capitalist society, there are free markets
in a hypothetical socialist economy, its done by Central planning.
computers would evaluate and input and output data, and thus relevant amounts of production is allocated to each sector of industry.
the free market, however successful, operates on the principles of profit and produces immense amounts of waste.
immense amounts of waste
[citation needed]
what citation lol?
So far as our current knowledge goes, no. Computing optimal prices turns out to have the same complexity as computing the optimal plan itself
Well, as I said, quantum computing nor linear programming existed during the time of the Soviet Union powerful enough to calculate economic and macroeconomic functions on a national level at that time.
this was written in 2012 by a statistics and computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon
The computational complexity formula I quoted above already allows for only needing to come close to the optimum. Worse, the complexity depends only very slowly, logarithmically, on the approximation to the optimum, so accepting a bit more slop buys us only a very slight savings in computation time. (The optimistic spin is that if we can do the calculations at all, we can come quite close to the optimum.) This route is blocked.
yeah maybe in a century when a supercomputer is able to calculate for every single nuance, every single preference then maybe socialism will be possible
calculation_debate.pdf
yes, that's why I said quantum computing makes it very possible
this pdf shows how it can be achieved through supercomputers
but just because a computer program can optimize the most efficient use of resources doesnt automatically mean thats what the market desires
theres a clear disconnect
there would be no market under central planning
it still works under supply and demand
but not under a market
The innumerable living participants in the economy, state and private, collective and individual, must serve notice of their needs and of their relative strength not only through the statistical determinations of plan commissions but by the direct pressure of supply and demand. The plan is checked and, to a considerable degree, realized through the market.
-Trotsky
did they have computers in 1924?
obviously he didn't forsee computers.
that's like asking a man of the 60s to expect what's the Internet
quantum computing today is not capable of allocating resources efficiently though
that's why the technology should be worked upon and improved on
it's still at its infancy
but linear programming is a given
technology has created new kinds of democracy, socialism and other economic concepts unbeknownst to a man couple of decades ago
so it should be worked upon, until proven superior to market forces
so what I'm saying is that, when the general populace becomes educated about socialism and becomes class conscious, it will be the final nail on the coffin for capitalism