lol democratic socialism advocates for state intervention to address social inequalities and state interventions aimed at suppressing the economic contradictions of capitalism

you remove power from the individual when you afford more power to a centralized bureaucracy lol

central planning has already been tried though

and it cannot compete with a price based market economy

why would there be state intevantion under socialism? there are no representatives under socialism, it's direct democracy at its purest.

@Egoy because computing was not advanced enough

prices are the most direct and efficient way resources can be allocated

state intervention exists by way of democratic socialism. you even said this is a vehicle to attain "true socialism"

there will always be state intervention under these conditions

Well under socialism, "market forces" would be allocated by supercomputers, read Paul cockshott for that, he described it when he published papers about the socialist calculation debate

@Egoy under socialism, the state is under the whip of the people lol, so "state intervention" would be a baseless argument tbh, when the workers own the means of production

with 21st century technology, central planning is actually feasable (to a extent)

Well, at least you understand the basic concepts of socialism

thats nice we have socialists that want to engage in debate. its sorta sad thought itll probably never work out

discord socialists are okay

YouTube socialists are edgy elementary schoolers who think that the hammer and sickle is kewl

many people falsely associate it as a alternative

i mean if literally only technology is the barrier to full on socialism why hasnt any other coutnry done it?

if its so clear?

nordic model still employs markets. china has large privately own sectors

Well, socialism can only be established when the working class is educated enough about it or when the alienation of said class is reached to an extent, capitalism is a transitionary ideology and a global system as well, socialism is a global system

the transition to socialism is inevitable, no matter what the timescale is.

it's any ideology, like feudalism and capitalism, capitalism would fall when the circumstances call for it.

Cosma Shalizi has a good essay on why supercomputers wont be the only solution to figuring out the economic calculation problem

Well about this economic calculation, yes, I shall explain more about it

so in a capitalist society, there are free markets

in a hypothetical socialist economy, its done by Central planning.

computers would evaluate and input and output data, and thus relevant amounts of production is allocated to each sector of industry.

the free market, however successful, operates on the principles of profit and produces immense amounts of waste.

immense amounts of waste

[citation needed]

what citation lol?

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimization-problem-solves-you/#equilibrium

So far as our current knowledge goes, no. Computing optimal prices turns out to have the same complexity as computing the optimal plan itself

Well, as I said, quantum computing nor linear programming existed during the time of the Soviet Union powerful enough to calculate economic and macroeconomic functions on a national level at that time.

this was written in 2012 by a statistics and computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon

The computational complexity formula I quoted above already allows for only needing to come close to the optimum. Worse, the complexity depends only very slowly, logarithmically, on the approximation to the optimum, so accepting a bit more slop buys us only a very slight savings in computation time. (The optimistic spin is that if we can do the calculations at all, we can come quite close to the optimum.) This route is blocked.

yeah maybe in a century when a supercomputer is able to calculate for every single nuance, every single preference then maybe socialism will be possible

calculation_debate.pdf

yes, that's why I said quantum computing makes it very possible

this pdf shows how it can be achieved through supercomputers