Message from @DrYuriMom
Discord ID: 506945024160694272
wonder what would happen if you used a political rival to the main stream with some power to investigate it
Looking at the discussion above I have to again ask is there a place between communism and pure capitalism where it might be rational to land? I keep coming back to health care and the now growing opinion of the US electorate that they have a "right" to standard-of-care (best available) treatment for their heart attack, stroke, or cancer. I deal with this all the time at work. No one wants to be allowed to pass even when they have a low likelihood of survival with additional (expensive) treatment. How will people take to being told their husband would have an 80% chance of complete recovery but you don't have $50,000 and therefore we're going to let him die? Currently we have government mechanism to prevent that scenario - Medicaid, the ACA, etc. If we go 100% "personal responsibility" I would assume these mechanisms would be sunsetted?
If you can't pay you either get sub-par treatment and/or you die?
I personally am a free market liberalist, but like one of my personal heroes, Winston Churchill, there seem to be sectors of the economy where a little collective responsibility seems more palatable in an industrial or post-industrial culture.
The question whose answer I'm still not sure of, and neither was Winnie, is how much and in what form?
Short answer yes.
I firmly believe you can have a a capitalistic free market encompassing tax funded single payer health care system without overtaxing the population.
But we see nations with a mixed system of government and private financing doing a better job on much less. Japan has the highest life expectancy and lowest infant mortality in the world and yet they spend 2/3 on health care as the US. Germany has some similar stats.
So V, you support something like the ACA which provides for universal coverage?
I mean per capita
You spoke of insurance, though.
Yes, it is.
With subsidies to assist those of lesser means to obtain it.
I'll just say, population will make it cheaper. Economies of scale.
The ACA is based on a Republican model.
But we're bigger than Japan and German but spend half again per capita for worse results
The ACA provides for people to spend no more than 10% of their income on an actuarial basis on health care up to a certain point. the biggest flaw of the ACA was that the point chosen was not high enough.
Japan = 2 deaths per 1000 live births
Yes, that is true
And the US has an obesity epidemic
I totally agree with this
But we still spend a lot for poor results
But these same people you are speaking of, will they accept a system that doesn't do everything possible to save their lives when they are sick?
So what is the best solution for us to give the people what they want with as few unintended consequences as possible?
Anything else is an ivory tower exercise
Okay, and how do we achieve that in a representative democracy where people don't like being told things they do not want to hear?
Yes Ayn Rand π
Nice to meet you, Atlas
Lack of a healthy free open and _fair_ market, in many sectors jack up the prices. Example the insurance market is dominated by one company. AIG carries directly or re-insures ~65% of all Americans. In europe there is an open market for insurance called Lloyds of London, where insurance companies reinsure. They same can be said about front line health care service providers, and sub-suppliers. Example given. American have two producers of saline solutions. One of the had problems this spring. This resulted in FDA temporarily approve european produced saline solutions to American market. Where the market price is twice that.
If USA introduced the same single payer system that there is in my Scandinavian country, the price per capita would tripple.
Anyway I gotta go to the orthodontist for a bit. Gotta love braces at 47 years old. I hope to talk more with you π
Stay safe π
YT playlist describing some countries different health care systems
<https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfBg8ML-gIngk82SUbTp6Og_KkYfJ6oF>
Very cool, thanks
I have when people go "look, this place does it, we can do it to". It's just like "yes, while we are at it, let's import the same population, hope the system scales well, also have only their genetics, their work ethic, and have another country support our national defense."
Too many variables, way too risky
I would like to send my municipalityβs engineers to USA for a study trip, so they learn how to design car friendly intersections
I agree small stuff is easy to transplant. It is difficult to transplant whole complex systems