"Just becuase it requires the mother to get to be self sustaining does not mean it's a part of the mother"

but that does make it a parasite

Never said it wasn't?

I'm sorry, Grenade, I was asking your position on when life began. What are you talking about when you're saying something is to be avoided if at all possible?

It acts as a parasite would

no, but if i have the choice to attach a parasite, why do i lose the choice to remove it?

@Bookworm story, this started on abortion. and i believe abortion is not a form of birth control

Becuase you dont have the choice to attach one

although avoiding creating human life at all possible would solve all human problems

can't have human problems without humans.

I supppose by a strict definition yes (though one could argue the part of 'at the host's expense').

As I stated earlier, having sex is like signing a contract

Going offline soon, see you when I can.

If the girl gets pregnant than you have a baby

you have the choice to attach a parasite. you can take a leech and let it attach.

having sex is that same choice, although it includes making the leech too.

now, a leech can live without a host, a developing human cannot.

Having sex is not attaching a parasite

well, not until about 7 months anyway (or was it 6?)

Its signing a contract

Even then, Grenade, a human is dependant on aid for its survival for at least several years, and usually far longer.

yes, but it doesn;t require the mother

specifically, the mothers body

you can pass it around to other people

which is why i think the ability to transplant fetus, and artificial wombs, would solve the problem. Fetus doesn't die, women gets to remove a parasite

My point being having sex signs a contract that if a baby were to happen then you must take responsibility

You dont consent to the baby

That seems congruous with current social norms.

well, then you believe you can sign away the rights to your body

You consent to contract of life if you decide to partake in sex

and cannot take those rights back ever

until the contract is through

Yes, that would be the point of a contract.

a contract can be nulled

Yeah, a contract must be followed

this one, cannot.

for example, if undo harm happens outside the scope of the contract

Can a contract by definition be nulled, or are there some contracts that cannot be rescinded?

depends on if you believe contracts overcome all rights really

They do

if a contract says you must server as a slave, and to stop being a slave you will be shot, then you have signed away your right to life

If they didn't then truth would be invalid in society