Message from @O_Castitatis_Lilium

Discord ID: 405169431099080704


2018-01-23 01:14:27 UTC  

yes, like a Parent does to its child

2018-01-23 01:14:27 UTC  

no, that is a principle.

2018-01-23 01:14:41 UTC  

but a parent values their child living.

2018-01-23 01:14:54 UTC  

so it isn't a sacrifice to look after them.

2018-01-23 01:14:58 UTC  

A parent also values their child be able to sustain themselves, A parent is not gonna be around forever

2018-01-23 01:15:07 UTC  

yes

2018-01-23 01:15:14 UTC  

they'll want their child to be strong enough to survive on its own

2018-01-23 01:16:12 UTC  

Listen. Do you want to know the true nature of altruism? Communism. Naziism. These are the enevitable extremes of altruism.

2018-01-23 01:16:19 UTC  

THAT is the true altruism for me

To sacrifice your time and life(work) to raise a child to be self-sustaining to continue the species

which is what soceity if its REALLY altruistic should do, not take someones hard earned money BY FORCE mind you, and give it to any random schlob that says "waah i can't survive on my own"

2018-01-23 01:16:59 UTC  

Wouldn't communism and naziism be a form of forced altruism, rather than what Jay is trying to describe?

2018-01-23 01:17:02 UTC  

sacrificing yourself for the greater good becomes sacrificing **everyone** for the greater good.

2018-01-23 01:17:09 UTC  

It is exactly that Jaden

2018-01-23 01:17:27 UTC  

altruism eventually neccessitates force.

2018-01-23 01:17:28 UTC  

Communism is putting a gun to peoples head and saying "you're going to sacrifice your work and time for someone else" you don't get a say in it

2018-01-23 01:17:55 UTC  

which is why i reject your altruism position Revolver

2018-01-23 01:18:14 UTC  

the ultimate altruistic act is to commit suicide.

2018-01-23 01:18:22 UTC  

The welfare state started with altruistic views, people agreed to help others until they could get back on their feet and then they were cut off, now; that's not the case. People are forced to have their taxes pay for people that sit on welfare their whole lives. So people aren't doing it because they feel charitable, they are being forced to, which takes away the altruistic nature of it.

2018-01-23 01:18:25 UTC  

I don't fancy becoming selfish or short-sighted. Or dependant on a rug that can be pulled out from underneath of me.

2018-01-23 01:18:28 UTC  

it is to give up your life.

2018-01-23 01:18:28 UTC  

Allowing others to go against your morals can be altruistic so that makes no sense

2018-01-23 01:18:40 UTC  

and there is such a thing as learned helplessness and it can start as early as the age of 2

2018-01-23 01:18:42 UTC  

O_Castitas, you rock 😛

2018-01-23 01:19:20 UTC  

no, its the other way around, taking the charitable nature away **increases** the altruistic nature of welfare.

2018-01-23 01:19:32 UTC  

because it becomes more dutiful

2018-01-23 01:19:34 UTC  

There is a difference between helping and having a person rely on something

2018-01-23 01:19:51 UTC  

but that is my view on it, Altruism is self-sacrifice for others, the best way to do it would be to teach people to be independent so they can be strong in times that need strength

2018-01-23 01:19:51 UTC  

and it means that you value your sacrifice less.

2018-01-23 01:20:07 UTC  

but that isn't altruism!!!

2018-01-23 01:20:27 UTC  

Anyhow, as much as i love arguing endlessly and repeating the same talking points, its 2:20 at night for me on a Tuesday 😛 i need some sleep

2018-01-23 01:20:34 UTC  

no, it doesn't the definition of the word is someone who willingly gives to another at a cost of some sort to them, for the benefit of the person they are helping

2018-01-23 01:20:36 UTC  

teaching people to be self reliant is teaching them to live for themselves i.e. selfishness

2018-01-23 01:21:16 UTC  

no, the definition has been altered. Kant defines altruism as **dutiful sacrifice**.

2018-01-23 01:21:17 UTC  

that is the definition of Altruism, to take away the act of doing so willingly takes away the altruistic nature of it

2018-01-23 01:21:19 UTC  

I don't see how its selfish to teach a person to survive without the help from someone else's good grace

Holodomor is a prime example of that

2018-01-23 01:21:23 UTC  

Altruism = selflessness "self" not "other"lessness

2018-01-23 01:21:32 UTC  

the key word is duty.

2018-01-23 01:21:49 UTC  

then it is the duty of the population to teach others to survive

2018-01-23 01:21:54 UTC  

what about cavemen and fire

2018-01-23 01:21:56 UTC  

no it isn't

2018-01-23 01:22:11 UTC  

its the duty of man to learn to live for themselves.

2018-01-23 01:22:16 UTC  

one person had to learn it, had peopel surrounding his fire, so it taught thme to do it so that they would leave his cave, what of that then