Message from @Dr.Wol

Discord ID: 405168107657887745


2018-01-23 01:05:48 UTC  

hahaha read the first sentence then the last one.

2018-01-23 01:05:49 UTC  

because people will learn to survive and learn they are strong enough to survive without a "nanny state"

2018-01-23 01:06:43 UTC  

I though the elite believed in votes

2018-01-23 01:06:45 UTC  

no, they're the embodiment of "ooh look at how nice we are aren't we good?" its the Kind person al over again, they don't do it for the person being helped, tehy do it to make themselves feel good

2018-01-23 01:07:11 UTC  

the nature of altruism is **neccessary sacrifice**. It is a sacrifice of value that is done out of duty. By paying taxes you are giving up something you value, in return for ultimately something you likely do not value.

2018-01-23 01:07:44 UTC  

if you do the sacrifice because you want to, i.e. out of charity, it ceases to be a sacrifice.

2018-01-23 01:08:08 UTC  

it ceases to be altruistic.

2018-01-23 01:08:15 UTC  

Give a man a fish / teach a man to fish argument

Altruism is just gaining favor by showing how nice you are

a true form of Altruism would be to teach people to be independent and strong so they can live their life, find a good partner, and hopefully get children to continue the species as strong as possible

2018-01-23 01:08:26 UTC  

no

2018-01-23 01:08:35 UTC  

that is teaching people how to be selfish.

2018-01-23 01:09:16 UTC  

teaching people to be strong so they can find a mate and sustain themselves is selfish now?

I thought it was selfish to keep people dependent, so they vote for you cuz they know they can't survive on their own

2018-01-23 01:10:02 UTC  

no, that is altruistic, because you are sacrificing to sustain them.

2018-01-23 01:10:27 UTC  

yes, and then what happens when you die? they die too because they learned to need your help, not survive on their own once yuo're gone

2018-01-23 01:11:04 UTC  

this is why Africa is such a dependent and shitty place, because those people are dependent on our help, which in turn keeps them infantile, like children because they can't grow up and survive

why would they? they get free stuff if they're helpless

2018-01-23 01:11:28 UTC  

>when sheep are docile and hopelessly dependant

2018-01-23 01:11:37 UTC  

Altruism is selflessness, but there is nothing about it that says it needs to be necessary in anyway, it can be entirely inconsequential, what ocelot is talking about is moralism

2018-01-23 01:11:45 UTC  

The umbilical cord is palpable.

2018-01-23 01:12:36 UTC  

I have been trying to explain this for about half an hour now. The dominant morality of the entire world today is altruism.

2018-01-23 01:13:00 UTC  

I wont argue that that is what people want to believe

2018-01-23 01:13:24 UTC  

i'm arguing that theres no altruism in keeping people in a child-like dependant state where their only way to survive is by your graces

2018-01-23 01:13:40 UTC  

i reject your view of altruism so to speak

2018-01-23 01:13:45 UTC  

Altruism isn't a moral, morals are very discrete

2018-01-23 01:14:03 UTC  

Everyone should have equal opportunities is a moral

2018-01-23 01:14:11 UTC  

but it is, because you have to sacrifice your produced value in order to feed them.

2018-01-23 01:14:26 UTC  

Which is why deporting illegal immigrants and building the wall (whether or works or not is another matter entirely) is actually the humanitarian thing to do for Mexico.

2018-01-23 01:14:27 UTC  

yes, like a Parent does to its child

2018-01-23 01:14:27 UTC  

no, that is a principle.

2018-01-23 01:14:41 UTC  

but a parent values their child living.

2018-01-23 01:14:54 UTC  

so it isn't a sacrifice to look after them.

2018-01-23 01:14:58 UTC  

A parent also values their child be able to sustain themselves, A parent is not gonna be around forever

2018-01-23 01:15:07 UTC  

yes

2018-01-23 01:15:14 UTC  

they'll want their child to be strong enough to survive on its own

2018-01-23 01:16:12 UTC  

Listen. Do you want to know the true nature of altruism? Communism. Naziism. These are the enevitable extremes of altruism.

2018-01-23 01:16:19 UTC  

THAT is the true altruism for me

To sacrifice your time and life(work) to raise a child to be self-sustaining to continue the species

which is what soceity if its REALLY altruistic should do, not take someones hard earned money BY FORCE mind you, and give it to any random schlob that says "waah i can't survive on my own"

2018-01-23 01:16:59 UTC  

Wouldn't communism and naziism be a form of forced altruism, rather than what Jay is trying to describe?

2018-01-23 01:17:02 UTC  

sacrificing yourself for the greater good becomes sacrificing **everyone** for the greater good.

2018-01-23 01:17:09 UTC  

It is exactly that Jaden

2018-01-23 01:17:27 UTC  

altruism eventually neccessitates force.

2018-01-23 01:17:28 UTC  

Communism is putting a gun to peoples head and saying "you're going to sacrifice your work and time for someone else" you don't get a say in it

2018-01-23 01:17:55 UTC  

which is why i reject your altruism position Revolver