The part of me _wanting_ to make changes for the betterment of my kind.

but you are included in your kind

so you still are not performing a sacrifice.

"One of us suffers, so all of us must suffer"

It sounds a lot like naivety.

> wants to not be a degenerate
> is degenerate

same

>>

I make the choice. And in the end, no one's going to take that choice away from me if the need ever arises.

as Aristotle famously said, things are what they are, not what we want them to be.

go ahead

I'm going to have to direct you to the same quote.

I support your choice

I feel like you _want_ there not to be tough choices like that, and a bigger picture to consider. If someone wants to live for themselves, they can go right on ahead. Otherwise, the sacrifice and other sacrifices will have been for nothing.

but what if the society neccessitates sacrifice? like with the welfare system? they can't live for themself.

then they need to be taught how to live on their own

fuck off

they will die and you know it

you are undermining the purpose and value of division of labour

you can't just expect people to continuously pay for them, and then when the peopel who they relied on dy out, they will be left alone and they will die too because they don't know how to do anything for themselves

it's not a permanent solution

you cant just devolve society back to individuals

Again, it goes back to this. People need to become more independant, and be able to stand on their own two feet.

i agree completely

er

I'm pretty sure that was argued for earlier.

which if the human race expects to get anywhere, they will start by starting to cut people off of welfare that have nothing wrong with them

that is why I'm advocating for people to become selfish.

its not selfish to build a career

rationally selfish people do not rely on or exploit others.

yes it is

no it's not

and you knwo it

the rest of society depends on it

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you there. It's a fucked and doomed-to-fail system if everyone only ever thinks of themselves

it's selfish to sit there and take their tax money

for the government maybe

and when I got here, you were telling people that beingforced to be someone's personal bank account was a selfless act

which it's not

The world is already feeling that effect. People just waltz on by homeless people all the time. Little to no empathy.

but its not rational, because eventaully the money will dry up