to get it where it is supposed ot be would be to jump to like 10-15 and hour

its been devaluing itself for a while now

I think you missed my point just a bit

But maybe I explained it poorly?

Minimum wage is primarily a market distortion. It leads to reduced employment. End of story.

And the story continues

It tends to be used as the classic example of how price floors cause a drop in the quantity supplied and lead to worse outcomes.

not to mention, it does not account for things like healthcare or providing for schooling.

Pratel, did you even read what I put before?

Like at all?

i already said min wage doesn't really address the work force issue. but it doesn't help it either.

illegals are already staying under the radar, which makes it easier for companies to hire them illegal

That's why we should punish the companies who hire illegal immigrants first

what illegal is going to dox himself to complain about bad pay

but a legal american?

why should we punish companies for the crimes of the individual?

do we punish the employer of a murder?

The company has committed a crime too

Firstly, illegal worker or not, the company employed someone for less than minimum wage

That in itself is a serious felony

@Cody Yeah. And it's almost entirely wrong.

I do not see how?

Your saying we shouldn't punish someone for hiring a person who can not legally work?

And if so, why?

You are using minimum wage to punish employers for an employees willingness to work for less than min wage

Then we punish them for hiring an illegal immigrant

then lets punish gab for having a murder on their platform

The problem will never go away until the company's themselves stop hiring illegals

they will never stop hiring so long as they are here.

So we must decentivize that

which incentives shipping jobs overseas anyway.

Then we need to secure our borders, then lower minimum wage

And outright abolish it slowly

Grenade, you do not see it as a crime to intentionally hire someone who can not legally work?

There was both intent, and action

By definition it's a crime punishable with our penal code

we have ppl here supporting the minimum wage?

hasn't that been debunked to death aleady?

"Think about it, having no minimum wage would not incentivize hiring Americans"
Perhaps not directly, but if it costs a couple dollars less, it's less of a disincentive.

"An American still looks to progression in their wage
An illegal, would work for the same small amount forever if they could"
Completely incorrect. Illegals look to increase their wages like everyone else. They just recognize that it's going to be harder to do it above the table. But make no mistake, an illegal alien will eagerly look to make more money. And not all Americans necessarily look for raises, some want less working hours.

"It would just lead to actual Americans seeing wages fall, and it wouldn't solve the illegal workers problem"
This is correct. Though I think you're oversimplifying. Most Americans would be unaffected. This is why many minimum wage hikes appear to have negligible effect--the equilibrium price for labor already cleared the price floor.

"It was illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage
We need to punish companies who hire illegal immigrants, and decentivize them in those feilds"
There's more to it than that. For example, you can still offshore labor. Do agree we shouldn't be encouraging companies to circumvent labor law by hiring illegal persons and they should be punished.

"But as it stands, lowering the minimum wage wont actually fix anything, and getting rid of it would just cause unnecessary civil unrest"
But raising it doesn't help either. As it stands, it might be inflating away with time, which can be the same effect without needing to go through the political process.

I'm not for the minimum wage

why should companies be allowed to hire illegal workers?