@realz you might have said this earlier in the thread above but what are you using for the charting and svg generation. I am a React.JS FE web developer so if you need some JS, XML, HTML, CSS, Json etc looked at for optimizations I'd be happy to give you a hand.

There are a few especially with an Amazon instance to back it

I don't have access to one at the moment sadly...

https://github.com/d3/d3 is a JS library that is designed for heavy duty graphs charting and data visualization

Data optimization is a must...

Wow...

Lol not everything can play as nice at async as Python ot JS

Sadly, I don't have a lot of experience with data analysis... I mean my attempt at try to make an example at how simple it would be to hide code in a vote tabulator for someone is generally as far as I have to go, it's either data input or display of analyzed data.

https://codepen.io/antifish03/pen/wvWQjVE

It's nothing special and I put maybe an hour into it to prove what I was thinking. But it has no place around real data...

Not, that it couldn't be used as a trainer for an AI to look for similar style inconsistencies.

Can you do smaller chunks of the data and overlay the dots in layers?

It would let you still visualize the data but at smaller bite size pieces rather than choking on the whole thing at once

Since SVG is just a glorified XML file smaller ones can be merged with others into a bigger one

Well there you go, that should optimize the process considerably.

Unless it's a rats nest

Let me switch over to my computer so I can actually look at the github repo @DrSammyD posted. My phone chokes on itself to try and open it up

I already pulled my MBP out... so I am looking at the repo directly... just trying to first get a handle on what the code is doing before I try to wrap my head around the deluge of data

It's a giant cluster of data to try and analyze. I know this might sound weird have you tried doing statistical analysis for mean, median, mode, quartiles and the outliers? It might let you look for out of the ordinary things

I'm really looking at this as a clean set of eyes at the moment, not knowing what has or hasn't been done so not trying to derail anything just asking questions

I'm just trying to wrap my head around things that you've tried or haven't to look at this data... like comparing all the counties in a state looking not at trump v. biden but just at the mean, median and mode and breaking up for things like turnout rates that are way outside any other counties in the state

Just thinking that trying to highlight points of where to actually look for issues rather than just trying to drown in the data

isn't P=NP the minesweeper problem

Sorry... I just remember a prof trying to explain it to us and using minesweeper as an example... its been long enough since I thought about it so I can't speak intelligently on it

I just remember its one of the classically difficult math equations to represent and prove or disprove

That's never a good sign

!rank

I don't chat enough to actually think I am going to get anywhere with that

I've tended lately to close my social media, chats including discord, and such. I have too many friends with TDS and won't listen to anything but MSM...

Someone is trying to inflate his rank... can't say I blame you

I actually need to remember to turn my alarm off... I have tomorrow through Sunday off... its so wonderful actually having some vacation time for once

oof...

With a full online Black Friday and Cyber Monday I don't want to think about on call...

or almost completely online BF and CM...

Any thoughts about what could be done to curb the BATFE's excesses here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IkVtY1PMoU Most of these companies have letters from the ATF in the past that said that a brace wasn't a stock and didn't make a pistol into an SBR or AOW (any other weapon) both of which require an owner to have an NFA tax stamp before ownership and submit to some pretty arduous liberty infringements to be in possession, and you are supposed to have the NFA tax stamp before you have the firearm transferred into your possession. But just with bump stocks and other trigger type devices they adjusted their understanding of a definition on an apparent whim to make a considerable number of people potential felons overnight

Goodnight @realz

@realz did you manage to get that svg generation optimized enough to not destroy your computer?

How big did it end up being? And I'm not concerned about mine i9 16" MBP should have more than enough horsepower for it...

Holy s&*t

@realz I was reading through the dominion info released by one of the lawsuit complaints. And my example I shared the other night might have some similarity in general to how it functions...

At a quick glance that is similar to how the example I wrote could be setup... I am using a fixed randomization point but if it were setup to be more of a floating point to make sure that the race was won by the specified side by a narrow margin it could very much do that

I don't have time to watch the video 😦 I was only intending to check out whether you succeeding in getting the svg generated or in melting your laptop

That's not too hard... I am a programmer, I sit in an office chair for a large majority of my day

By the way.... Why did you have to send me that video... Now I am going to sit here and watch it even though I should be seeking my bed for the night

I my shock is how my f-ing simple as example was closer than even I wanted to imagine it to be

since it started from me trolling someone with a bit of pseudo code

Fair enough

I wish that the data wasn't batched

!rank

It would be far nicer to look at the actual data flow... rather than intermittent dumps of data

I swear to god though I am thinking about setting up an open source project to build the next voting machines, and tabulation devices, using block-chain and double data redundancy.

I wonder if there is a large enough group of devs that would want to get in on that to make it a reality...

In my mind there are things that you want to do, obviously an intuitive and usable interface for the voter, and 2 physical print outs. 1 the ballot to be inserted in the tabulator, and the tabulators receipt to be retained by the voter for accuracy. Where the receipt has a random uuid for the voter, and the selections made by the voter. That way if there is an issue and the voter has their receipt its a simple matter for the system to recall the ballot details and compare. On top of that networking to a local subnet server (no external network access) to a secure server for storage of the tabulated votes. The printed ballots and the digital data can be used to audit the counts.

Absentee ballots are still the PITA though.

True, but the purpose I was going to add for the block chain was for the digital recall by any voter to view their own ballot in a secure manner

Ugh it didn't reference the original message. This is about online voting

@meglide that would be insanely insecure. The attack surface is absolutely huge! The system I was advocating creating is about having at least 2 audit paths for the data. Even a script kiddie can screw with how a website operates. I know I have modified other websites I don't have control over to make them usable when they decide to put anti-paste for password or email fields, even prevent poorly written code from running and breaking page loading etc. And I have set up small little scripts so I could click buy buttons faster for concerts and other events when there is a high demand. You can't imagine what people with unfettered access to a site can and will do. Voting machines if they are electronic need to be hardened and in a public location only.

The original message I was trying to reply to was specifically about online voting. I was merely mentioning that it is insanely insecure and that the attack surface is huge. I agree we don't accuse people for stealing from an atm without evidence but atms are actually fairly hardened devices. But a website for online voting is really soft.

Security of voting/elections inherently comes down to a certain level of trust being required. I think that without a process that is openly transparent and where everything is visible that it is very difficult to provide enough security to give an election the trust it needs

Another media source starting to use some critical thinking skills and offer objective reporting... https://www.lawofficer.com/this-is-why-republicans-believe-the-election-was-stolen/ maybe journalism isn't completely dead after all.

No need for ad hominem... My only point was look there are finally some more sources talking about this... Regardless of your opinion some people do believe that good officers do exist.

Actually they are very important. It prevents a Tyrannical government from getting or creating a list of people who are or potentially are against any measure they attempt to pass or push through or force onto the population.

It also prevents groups extreme alt-left or right groups from targeting individuals based on who they voted for. Even private information about a person leaks from the government from time to time.

A party must petition the SCOTUS to issue a Writ of Certiorari.
https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/supreme-1

Classical or traditional liberal ideals are center or just left of center right now... the left has gone left

I was just about to say the political spectrum is fubar from where it was just a few years ago. I'm generally a right of center guy because of my views on individual liberty(especially 2A), small government, and government over-reach. But a lot of social issues I am left leaning, which I will sum up with to each their own, (marriage, weed, etc). But I am also fiscally conservative, we can't keep printing money.... do we want inflation cause this is how you get inflation.

But where that falls on the current spectrum I haven't the foggiest of a clue, because the Dems are currently way out there. GOP is full of so much BS, and idiocy that isn't where I think things should go.

My biggest worry if Biden is eventually made president-elect (Jan 6) and President Jan 20th is that he and his projected cabinet, are very anti-2A. And so are the Dems that are in control of the house, and there are a couple of waffling Republicans in the Senate...

On top of it, there are so many irregularities with this election, that if we don't get to the bottom of its never going to get investigated and they will continue to get worse as we get farther beyond the election.

Yeah, the people not those elected to office

Maybe, while I have hunted, and learned how, hunting is not my primary reason for owning firearms. Warren v. DC... While every officer I know would gladly do whatever they need to, to protect people they have no actual duty to protect individual citizens, just the community as a whole. So as the adage goes When seconds count police are minutes away.

and with the bATFe loving to redefine established definitions to suit themselves because there is ambiguity in the actual statutes (re: Bump Stock Ban) (on going issues with pistol braces) creates issues. The bump stock ban gives them a precedent to use as a justification to change how they define firearms and accessories despite the fact that I think they were stupid doesn't mean that banning them after years of issuing letters of compliance was acceptable.

Nah, It started as AnthonyFish (when I created it as a freshman in high school) became AntiFish (Anti-Noob) later... Just a little joke from the guys I was destroying in counter strike, tribes, halo, quake etc. that I was crushing at the time

With the wide swings of questions, comments, and everything else in this chat there is no telling...

Even if it wasn't I don't see a harm in being honest and genuine with people about it... its way easier than coming up with weird or unusual stories about how I got it somewhere for something... maybe a tad boring though

Government excesses like that are the reason I am grateful that we have a Constitution and it protects the inalienable right to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment and its protections of the tools necessary to protect life, liberty, and property

@Doc Yeah I could never be a politician... lying is not something I tolerate

@Maw @Doc ok I grudgingly tolerate liars...

But try to be as genuine as possible with people. Its way easier...

It used to be... bATFe reclassified it as a Machine gun 2 or 3 years ago.

I can only imagine... I don't have to deal with that very often so its not as big of a deal. And since there are times I show signs of falling on the spectrum, its something I also ignore most of the time.

Absolutely correct... its a great way to expend a lot of ammo and lose tons of accuracy. I personally think they are completely stupid but that doesn't mean that they are machine guns. but that is how the bATFe reclassified them for banning.

The problem with those laws and what they push is that it leads a diminishment of unalienable rights. (in the case of the 2nd Amendment its the tools to protect oneself from an aggressor). Firearms are currently the greatest equalizer in a disparity of physical capabilities. you don't have to be excessively strong. or super quick and agile, to wield a firearm in a defensive manner.

Do you limit someones right to vote, or speak because they don't have formal education? Do you limit a persons ability to speak because they didn't get a permissions slip from the government?

Also the limits on what a private citizen could legally own is less than 100 years old (National Firearms Act of 1934).

And finally I'll end my rant on this with the fact that there are over 20,000 firearms regulations in the US, and the states. Many of which already allow for everything that the Gun Control proponents are asking for again. Except the one explicitly disallowed piece by previous legislation. a gun registry. I'm not going to go into huge detail on this because its super lengthy but the reason why can be found in researching gun control in pre-nazi Germany. The Germans forced registration of firearms on its citizens as a way to curb violence. It was then used by the Nazi's to confiscate the firearms from the Jews before throwing them into concentration camps.

You're right, I had to go double check myself, Nazi's did loosen ownership rules with the requirement of registration. in 1928, Then in 1938 the Jewish community was forbidden from owning firearms and any arms they did have were confiscated.

The history of gun control is fraught with lots of repetitive stories. and the forgetting of history/ not learning history. and history is like that those that fail to learn from history are damned to repeat it. My point above involving Nazi Germany and Gun Control was that gun registrations have been fought against in the US because of that and similar history and the prior bad acts of other governments. In the hands of a fair and impartial government there is no issue. however most of us wouldn't be reading this chat if we didn't thing there were some issues in our government from time to time. and all it takes is one bad actor to taint it to cause real issues

@james j again all it takes is one person in the government to use information held by the government in bad faith to cause lots of issues

And that is true whether its about firearms or anything else

Obama... “This is the most transparent administration in history,” Government will always try to say it's transparent.

@james j government is not easily forced into doing something like that... the government would have to pass the laws to force itself to be more transparent.

Perjury is a crime, not a limit. Citizenship is a requirement for owning a firearm already, as is the fact a felon cannot own a firearm. and you might want to lookup the court case behind yelling fire in a theater it doesn't mean what you likely think it does.

Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. The case was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot).

So, your example of "falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater" would be covered under the unjustified use of firearm in a threatening manner is not protected.

I could see that... but I don't fall for identity politics... gotta be more than ethnic background

Laws passed in bad faith can take even longer to get rid of...

And you are right history can be used to prevent both good and bad changes. But repeating history because you didn't heed its warning is just as bad and just as wrong.

!rank

Its why its just as important to look at the discussions of the founding fathers in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers when looking at the 2nd Amendment as it is the intentions of the legislatures who passed the gun control laws. Bad faith reasons for passing a piece of legislation should be weighted as well

And this rant has gone on and on... Sorry if I derailed the actual topic for this chat.

Most of the most recent proposed...

The channel is named <#771201221145919499>

Red Flag, universal background checks, ammo bans, Semi-automatic rifle bans, magazine capacity limits...

none of these has changed anything in any state that has them

and they won't... add additional penalties to crimes committed with firearms

make the penalties more hash and pretty soon criminals will either be incarcerated, or avoid using firearms in the commission of their crimes

Also, that list of proposed gun control is already possible with the current laws. While respecting due process, and property rights.