!agree

@Tal,Karpov,AlekhineAllCoolGuys - how about this one: https://youtu.be/4Z2uzEM0ugY

The last video in <#463052787970998282> about the communism is the same old everybody in western media is peddling. I'm surprised Tim is falling in to this trap, given his inquisitive record, but it's the same problem with the western surface level politics. I am from Eastern Europe and it's common we look down upon the desire for simplisity in disecting a very complicated issue. I was very young when socialism fell in my country, but the talking points so far have been juvenile. Firstly full disclosure:
1. I do NOT believe socialism and communism is a good idea and believe any similar notion should be condemed
2. People in Eastern Europe do NOT fit western political paradime. Namely - it's usually authoritarian left conservative and liberal right wing.
3. I'm 32. Not an old fart, but not in college

My point is that the claims gulags are impending on the west is hardly realistic. Bussiness is simbiotic with government and gulags are bad for bussiness. A iron authoritarian system as it is in modern day Russia is the worst a socialist system would put in place.
Second point would be the beaten to dead claim that socialism doesn't work financially and has never worked. In reality people look to states with crazed paranoid dictators and military hotheads, as well as multinational symbiotic nation states, with religious and ethnic nations. Those are sad examples, but in fact, socialism (to an extent and by design) has worked financially in SOME Eastern European countries.
The dangers of socialism go way deeper and are way more sinister to the really important parts located higher in Maslow's piramide. A planned economy is effective, but devastating to all but basic food on the table and housing and transportation. Transitioning away from it is nie impossible. 30 years later, my country and many others are still healing the scars from the worst parts of it.
I'm not sure if I'll break any discord channel rules in tagging Tim or any of the admins, but really want to gauge and poke your brains a bit. Why do you think in none of the debates western journalists and pundits never speak to any of the people that have lived through it and lived through the transition of socialism?

Conservative is "Left" in Eastern Europe. We've had left leaning politics for decades. People, especially the older generations want the government to take care and regulate life to a good extent. It is even a default expectation for the government to regulate and impose price regulation on certain goods and services (which in my oppinion is insane). Left politics are usually authoritarian in nature (hence, we know their true colors and they're not even bothering to hide it). The right wing is taking a liberal stance, it's small government, pro bussiness and has a very strict hands-off policy to regulating people's lives. It's "new" to Easter Europe politics. Political correctness does not fit either - it's considered herracy by almost everyone on all sides of the spectrum and is not peddled by either the right or the left. - It's a long subject, but hope I covered the basics

.... I was really hoping to gauge an insight as to why you would think Western European and North American politics never go and poke around in Eastern Europe, where socialism was (and this is a stretch, but use the term for convenience) financially successful, but culturaly devastating. I wasn't trying to start a debate about Easter European political climate. For us, for the record - Western Europe is far left, USA politics are almost far left.

* sight * Eastern Europe (politically) is currently almost entirely centrist, not right-wing. The left is pathetic and we're not having any of it anymore. This is why you see massive protests in Poland that are nationalistic in nature. Not because they can't wait for the 4th reich goose steps any longer, but because Eastern Europe is desperately trying to prevent something that has ravaged us for decades. The right wing and far right wing have provent to be incompetent and insanely corrupt, all accross the board when it comes to Easter Europe borders. So most of the parties in power in the region are now Center-Right or Center-Left, but all with no exception, lean heavily libertarian, because the slightest hint of aurhoritarian notions leads to tens of thousands out in protest.
I don't blame you, nobody's looking in to East Europe's political climate. But why do you folks believe nobody - journalists, politicians and pundits alike, are not even interested in it and the history in socialism in the region?

and if you're wondering, we're seeing a huge unflux of western ex-pats emigrating to Eastern Europe, compared to previous years. Funnily enough, mostly men, and mostly white....

all the more reason to dig a bit in to why it's a bad rep, don't you think?

well considering that antifa in US and UK are waving soviet flags, Cortez was actually elected shadily and communism and socialism is no longer a dirty word in the media... while poland protests with this: https://i.redditmedia.com/K8q1WiWj5rfy48OCO0zdqb_3hXwKoVLdhjqlFV8Mb_o.jpg?w=960&s=1f9df15235432a3a050b7a1821ba9ec1

Americans are smart man. What's concerning is the world's culture and vibrancy is in the west and especially the US. I can be smug about knowing stuff Americans don't know, but then I actually see that there's nobody at all looking around and at least being curious. Perhaps just Sargon, and only a bit

Besides, I'm not talking about average Americans. There are those that do and they usually buy property and live here now. I'm looking at journalists and people in the actuall bussiness that should be doing it

Smart is a very broad term. Jordan B Peterson actually spoke about it on the JRE - people are way more curious and smarted than most give them credit for. I disagree that Americans are not smart. Just hurded in to certain viewpoints, and good on Tim to actually trying to circle around that imo

@RyeNorth , the thing about socialism was that it was acutually very effective in healthcare, education, housing, food production and benefits. That's not really a downside of socialism

Rye, the US and the EU are vastly different. The EU as an administrative unit is very different than the US. Each individual member states in the EU have little in common - even politically

are you talking about the EU as a federation, or EU member states?

it's very different Rye - The federal government and judicial branch are centralized and have localized representation. EU nations are sovereign states and EU law relates almost exclusively for trade regulations and fiscal matters.

the EU will break down mate it will be increasingly bad for bussiness before it could fall in to effect. And if I know any better, once it starts getting bad for bussiness, it's not going forward

yes, but the US is so much more culturally cohesive than european state countries, I don't even know where to begin. Take it from a EU citizen. It's not fiesable.

it probably won't. It is expected to shift back to a trade union.

the Brits are screwed. Griffix made a video on brexit a month ago if you guys follow her. She's dutch, very smart.

As an Eastern European I'm inherantly cinical about politics as most of my countrymen. We just learned to apeal to bussiness to force the government to be as libertarian as possible. Regardless of what we end up as a political system, we're no longer seeing left or right, we look at who's most libertarian of them all.

well, hope you live to mature politically in your society @RyeNorth - Eastern Europe's already there for a decade or so

and we've learned it the hard way, believe me....

you never knew why communism was bad Granade

This is objectively and historically not consistent (although authoritarian systems do tend to open the floor to shining examples). I can speak for my country and my parents and grandparent's experience - I'm from Bulgaria. We had a successful financial and society driven socialism. It way way way to broad and somebody probably needs to do a documentary about it, since I definately won't be able to type it all down. The day-to-day reality of a socialist system is not without it's merits. You are absolutely ensured you will have housing. It will also depend on how many children you have and receive the appropreate property. You will be given a car per family of 2 or more with a small tax (1 month's salary), food is calculated to be enough, so that you could have food on the table (it's what planned economy is for), you get state sponsored vacations on the seaside, mountain resorts, etc. The government finds you a job, so unemployment is practically zero, if there's no job for you, you still get a government salary, list goes on. As Tim mentioned in the video today, yes, the party does not tolerate decent, but nobody decented. The story about a woman being taken away - it could happen if there are other reports, and there will surely be some connections to show that it was a lie.

at least in a non-Ukrane one, since Ukrane was an absorbed state. The main reason socialism was bad and horrifying is it suffacated art, it stomped out ambition and it was traded in influence, rather than anything else.

this is why people revolted and wanted democracy, not because it failed financially... because contrary to popular belief, it didn't

we exported to the USSR a huge portion of production. It was just that it wasn't a madman in charge.

same for Poland, same for Hungary, same for Romania, etc.

it wasn't a single country that did well

more did well than didn't (financially)

the extra production wasn't a problem in most socialist states. You obviously have the horrid examples shoved in your face, where that wasn't really the common occurance. Bumps were offset by distribution of resourses between different Warsaw pact countries

including the USSR

Ukrane was beaten down, because there are ethnic tentions between Russiand and Ukranians

same with Yugoslavia - big country, rich on resourses, varied ethnicly, failed miserably

All I'm trying to say, the argument it was a system of scarcity and terror is simply not true for the most part

well why would you? what would inspire you? Besides, to be an artist, you had to go and get an education to be one. You can't just pick up a guitar and be inspired and finance your record, the state would have to approve it and why would it? You are not educated anough to be a musician. Or if you draw a painting... it's probably pretty, but you are not educated in the area to have a mandated place in a galery, there are people that studied 4 years for that. Or a poet or a writer... who's gonna publish you?

why would you show ambition? The state will find a job for you - you have a skillset you're good at, you do that for a living.

well yeah, art school 😃

do you see now the sinister and scary bit about socialism...

indeed, but that doesn't mean that you'd have a pool of artists as rich. Besides, you are mandated to be a painter or a musician, or a composer. And you are state mandated to be just that. What would inspire you 😉

oh did I mention that you are not allowed to NOT work if the state finds you a job? You might really want to be a singer and you probably have a tallent for it, but if you don't get an art education, or have a patron or the right connections, you are a baker... for life...

in liberals, not lefties.

the more you use liberal as interchangeable with left, the more this is going to get worse imo

exactly my point 😄

for all that is worth, and this is an outsider looking in, US cultural values are inharently racist AF. This is so so so sad and brutal.

you view citizens of a different race as a group with certain protections, advantages, privileges and even class them as culturally different.

you all use them to an extent. I can start a gender and or race debate, which is way too much for me (04:24 AM where I am)

!rank

you always had a concept of "black culture" or "italian culture" or "mexican culture". Don't know, probably seems fine with you, but as a foreigner, it disturbs me greatly and most mono-ethnical countries see it as mean to say the least

no, all I'm saying if somebody wants to be an American, that's what one is. All I said is that I find it racist to distinguish between Americans ethnicly.

you need to tag/address the person you're asking Arch

I am

I addressed you 4 lines ago

are you asking me or Granade?

racist
ˈreɪsɪst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

The context I used racist as was the prejudice bit

Arch, you distinguish between americans on the basis of skin color. This is all I meant. I find it grose. Most folks I'm friends with that come from a mono-ethnical state find it grose. We have people of color here and there and we don't give a rat's ass about it. I don't know how to make my point any clearer

you have quotas. The fact one can be viewed as a diversity hire is incredibly mean. That's all I'm saying.

and yet there are no protests against it.

ofc I have. You don't have massive protests against it, that's my point

well they are not really in the land of the free now are they Granade 😉

by racists

hence, my point

Anyway, thank you all for engaging. Good night ^^

<:LVA:463089670520045579>

Let's take a second to appreciate that no leftist will give a "platform" like this to a republican. Just saying <:TimThink:482277772497125378>

No spoilers folks, just started the stream (didn't see the notification)

I love how the poor fella started super confident and now he can barely stutter out a question

@JDM_WAAAT please next time do a @here tag, not a @ everyone. This is very inappropreate

Still no English sub, but I suppose a deutch speaker could still appreciate this. At least culture and art is still and chances are will continue to be critical of this shit in Eastern Europe https://youtu.be/HOPgWT2w9Bo

hey everybody? does Tim have a subscribestar account?

ait, got suspicious after I got an add on his new video for that

I don't really see it in timcast.com/donate

the add had n 80s porn sondtrack tho 😄