i still support a free market more than intervention, so im like right but not extreme free market

nah i actually disagree with outsourcing to third world countries

i think they did it badly and it wasnt managed correctly by both government and enterprise

if the USSR wasnt socialist what was it

even if the USSR was in practice state capitalist or whatever they did try to be socialist

realistically what system will abolish commmodity production

commodity*

even in Cuba they have privately owned shit

even in Cuba they have some free enterprise, eery country has it

like restaurants and shit are mostly free

lets be real you may support socialism or whatever but the USSR is not a good example

the kind of system they have over in Cuba and Venezuela is not a good one

i think that even when socialism is done well, it tends not to work

a lot of people try to dodge it with the wasnt real socialism argument

what countries were actually socialist then?

if it wasnt the USSR or Cuba or anything

Catalonia during the spanish civil war?

being realistic Catalonia didnt really work out well

how do you actually have an economy without commodity production

we are getting into some kind of utopian thinking here

Communism as the vision of a society without any money or any kind of commodity production is unrealistic

simply having money is not an inherently bad thing

tribal societies havent done very well

tribal socieities had far lower standards of living

this isnt really a case of opinion i mean, just looking at infant mortality etc

i've been to some places where they have tribalism

i went to Morocco and stayed with some nomads

its not a realistic plan for the entire world

these guys are starving, tribalism will just end up in anarchy

you may think real communism has never been tried but every time they have tried real communism it failed

thats the no true scotsman fallacy

thats like saying real capitalism has never existed and all arguements against capitalism are invalid

on a realistic level, we do have it though

why arent they capitlist

capitalist

im not on the extreme here on a realistic level we can have state intervention in a capitalist economy

even communists agree with that

doesnt have to be a lot of state intervention but we can still have some or whatever

government regulating child porn or whatever is a regulation against the free market for child porn

but who the fuck wants to legalise child porn

for consistency sake i never use the "wasnt real capitalism" anyway

i accept that there may be some issues with capitalism but its still better than socialism or tribalism

would you like to live in a viking example?

society*?

shit lol

with all the early death and mortality

viking times weren't exactly the peak of humanity

going off and stealing other people's shit

ironically they go and pillage civilisations and non-tribalist places

as a question have you ever lived in a tribalist place?

like, real tribals over in Africa or whatever

ok, but thats not really

they have police there

are they outside the entire US legal system

are they outside the US emergency services

considering the only reasons these native americans are still alive is due to mercy

if it was true tribalism and they wanted indepdendce they would be wiped out

capitalism has lifted the world out of poverty

thats how we got henry ford to make the assembly line and car

for profit

people do things for profit and they compete and it leads to innovation

because they get to keep the profit

we only saw a reduction in poverty due to the industrial revolution

China has boomed

China's growth only came about since the 1980s

since they adopted the free market

China lifts millions out of poverty every week

ok

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/china-lifts-over-68-million-people-out-of-poverty-in-5-years-report/articleshow/62863326.cms

the vast majority of the reduction in extreme poverty has been in China and India

and it has been in recent decades

capitalist source cmon

lets not get into this kind of stuff

nah i disagree with what they did there @t r u e

i think they should've done it differently

in fact manufacturing output is higher than ever

it is naturally part of the process on a transition to service economy

the reason we lost so many jobs to China was because of environmental regulations and wage regulations, also we have turned a blind eye to blatant Chinese unfair competition

@BeatleJuice i support Trump and his tariffs

minimum wage actually has costed jobs

minimum wage has created unemployment because some industries are unable to hire people cheaper

Walmart has razor thin profit margins

if they redistributed all salaries they would still only make like $16 an hour each

most companies make like 6% profit margins on average

its not like they are making 200% and get to pocket everything

socialism and open borders is a disaster

@t r u e wages in capitalist societies are higher than ever

even low-paid workers in capitalist countries on minimum wage or even below that would still be wealtheir than most of the world's population

if companies were paying too little nobody would accept and other companies would pay more to attract workers

thats what henry ford did

nah not really, this whole explotiation or workers thing doesnt really make sense

@DaddyCewlSterTube its determined by supply and demand, it cant be a race to the bottom, there is an equilibrium

ok, what is this marxist crap,

workers cant be paid the same price as the good that is sold

because we have to pay interest, dividends, rents and pay other workers who worked for the same product

there are other factors of production that aren't labour

we are paying the workers a price they have accepted and a similar price workers for the same job are getting paid, which actually is quite high in western nations

nope, you get the full value as determined by supply and demand, which is exactly what the CEO gets

everyone gets their wages from supply and demand

Holodomir