Messages from @Derde (Discord ID: 478847810918416395)

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Derde 2018-08-17 12:23:04 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #general]

Derde 2018-08-19 19:28:42 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #memes]

One blood.

Derde 2018-08-20 06:26:22 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

As 'n Afrikaaner hoe bemoedig ek ander Christene ens. :
Haai boet, sit daai braaitang neer en luister bietjie: is jy seker as jy sommer vandag dood omval jy gaan hemel toe? Nie? Nee man, jy moet weet! Bybel toe: Dit het ek geskrywe aan julle wat glo in die Naam van die Seun van God, sodat julle kan weet dat julle die ewige lewe het en kan glo in die Naam van die Seun van God.

Derde 2018-08-20 10:03:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #twitter]

Mfecane: 1850-1840

Derde 2018-08-20 13:59:45 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

So I read the article, and he says, there's a claim that "gospel preaching that calls unbelievers to repentance and submission to Christ’s lordship is itself a form of legalism." Indeed it is a form of legalism. Mr MacArthur's "gospel" is a call to do be sad and do dead works: not repentance from dead works and faith toward God. It's all about you, and it's not much about Christ and his work. MacArthur's not your old-style calvinist that looks for philosophical answers beyond what the Bible provides. He's a new sort that goes all the way to the idea that salvation is by faith, but faith is really works.

Exodus 20:11 Want in ses dae het die HERE die hemel en die aarde gemaak, die see en alles wat daarin is, en op die sewende dag het Hy gerus. Daarom het die HERE die sabbatdag geseën en dit geheilig.

Derde 2018-08-20 14:12:44 [Nothing Left #pushback]

Mattheus 19:4 En Hy antwoord hulle en sê: Het julle nie gelees dat Hy wat hulle gemaak het, hulle van die begin af man en vrou gemaak het nie, -- van die begin, nie van dermiljoene jare na die begin

Johannes 4:10 Jesus antwoord en sê vir haar: As jy die gawe van God geken het en geweet het wie Hy is wat vir jou sê: Gee vir My water om te drink, sou jy Hom gevra het en Hy sou vir jou lewende water gegee het.

1 Petrus 3:21 waarvan die teëbeeld, die doop, ons nou ook red, nie as ’n aflegging van die vuilheid van die vlees nie, maar as ’n bede tot God om ’n goeie gewete — deur die opstanding van Jesus Christus

Derde 2018-08-20 15:19:44 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

If you submit to Christ as Lord, then you are submitting to his law. If that is salvation, then that's salvation by works of the law. If you're not submitting to his law, then what exactly are you submitting to?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:19:49 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Being saved is the gift of God.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:20:56 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

@Malcolm the Seceder I see I should make a mention 😃

Derde 2018-08-20 15:32:45 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Sanctification is not by works, but by the blood of Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
It's not a special word: it just means "made holy".

Derde 2018-08-20 15:34:24 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

No.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:37:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

It means that even where you fail to live in accordance with the holiness that you have in Christ, you are still holy:
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
The law is the law. It's a thing. The gospel is not the law:
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:37:40 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Nobody but Christ has kept the law perfectly.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:38:04 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

But you say sanctification is keeping the law

Derde 2018-08-20 15:39:12 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Then you're guilty of all.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:39:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Will be forgiven?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:39:56 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Future tense?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:40:13 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:40:59 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I'm in present tense:
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:41:40 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

And if he doesn't ask, kinda knows, and doesn't care?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:42:12 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

So if you die in a sinful rage that you don't repent of, you're going to hell?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:43:30 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You've never sinned and not cared? Are you a real person?

Derde 2018-08-20 15:45:21 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

If it's ultimately that great attitude that determines heaven and hell, then it's the works of the law, and Jesus died for nothing.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:49:19 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

So every time someone sins, which is generally a failure of the will, you suggest he's not saved.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:49:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I don't see "guilt" in the fruit of the Spirit. love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:

Derde 2018-08-20 15:53:46 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You're saying this ... there are "mortal sins"
a) no self-deception is allowed
b) repentance is mandatory before death

Derde 2018-08-20 15:53:52 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Salvation by continual repentance is what you end up with when you head down the "lordship salvation" road.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:54:07 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

This is the "gospel" of muslims and mormons.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:56:57 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You said "certain sins". By implication, other sins are excluded.

Derde 2018-08-20 15:58:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

My deal is done - a good and perfect gift by faith, and nothing can change it:
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
It would be great for my life below to match to the calling wherewith I'm called, but being perfect is a long way off.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:03:14 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You can't just attach a whole theology to a word when that word has a perfectly good meaning already.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:04:15 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I defy you to find the words "true faith" in a real Bible.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:05:19 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

He was warning about false prophets.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:05:26 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

They have plenty of wonderful works.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:05:31 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

And miracles

Derde 2018-08-20 16:05:37 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

And they call him "Lord Lord"

Derde 2018-08-20 16:06:28 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

But they did have lordship salvation.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:06:42 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

They had faith in their works.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:07:39 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

He's Lord no matter what you say or do. He's YOUR Lord, no matter what you think.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:07:55 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You don't make him anything.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:08:33 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I'm talking about who he is.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:09:11 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

That's why we're still talking - because we lost each other on basic terms.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:09:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I'm happy to accept any term in the context it is used in the Authorised Version.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:11:58 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

We are brought into conformity with the law.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:12:04 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

We are sanctified.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:12:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

But when Mr Lordship arrives, he says that he demands that you make a false promise to do works of the law, or you go to hell.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:14:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I believe in 100% sanctification. 5% won't do, neither will 99.5%

Derde 2018-08-20 16:14:20 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I have 100% in heaven already. That's salvation.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:15:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Yes, but I have it now in heaven, and I got it without an ounce of good works.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:17:11 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

The "reserved in heaven" of 1 Peter 1:4 says you should like this talk of having it already in heaven more.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:22:16 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Yes, and his righteousness is imputed to us *if* we believe:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The trouble is that the lordship view says it is imputed if we make a false promise to care more about what we should be doing. That's not faith, but works, which will not save.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:25:31 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Is getting saved hard?

Derde 2018-08-20 16:25:57 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Christ did the hard part, you know.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:26:17 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

If it's submitting, following, striving, obeying then it's not faith.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:26:59 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God

Derde 2018-08-20 16:27:03 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

They are part of his household.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:27:10 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

That's why they get it first.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:27:34 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

And some of the righteous are living wickedly.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:28:21 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:28:59 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

"Show me your faith without works."

Derde 2018-08-20 16:29:23 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:30:47 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There is no such concept as "true faith".

Derde 2018-08-20 16:30:52 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There is faith.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:30:56 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There is "dead faith"

Derde 2018-08-20 16:31:00 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There is no "true faith".

Derde 2018-08-20 16:31:39 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?

Derde 2018-08-20 16:32:05 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

"Covenant of works" is nonsense.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:32:35 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I was 😃

Derde 2018-08-20 16:33:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

'cmon, call me an Arminian.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:33:36 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Do you want to visit?

Derde 2018-08-20 16:35:40 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There's a spectrum of Calvinism. TULIP pretends to answer great philosophical questions about salvation, but it does not claim to be the gospel. That's old-school calvinism. It's broadly compatible with salvation by grace through faith without works.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:36:02 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

However, when you follow it to the hard conclusions and you stick to them doggedly, you are preaching salvation by faith with works.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:36:47 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

(And for a bonus, you don't need the gospel, since it's God's secret election that ultimately saves, but that's off the point.)

Derde 2018-08-20 16:42:46 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Said Paul,
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
But if he was a TULIP'er, he would have acknowledged that the gospel is completely ineffectual and the real power is God's secret election, and only the elect can believe. He didn't.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:44:10 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

But the gospel is to all.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:44:20 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:44:30 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

There's a lot of whosoever.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:45:25 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Revelation 22:17 ... And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The offer is to all.
They don't hear, because TULIP teaches that the gospel is ineffective to save.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:45:53 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

You need something extra, that magic um.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:46:23 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Thanks for the chat.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:46:37 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Go and tell them.

Derde 2018-08-20 16:46:40 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

They're in the township 😃

Derde 2018-08-20 20:33:42 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #general]

Since the courts are ignoring the law ... how long before people start ignoring the courts ... no really really ignoring the courts ... no, normal people, I mean.

Derde 2018-08-21 07:36:56 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

It's about hair folks.

Derde 2018-08-21 10:10:46 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

We do know that Christ who is the glory of God did not shame his head with long hair

Derde 2018-08-21 10:15:52 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Bunch of queers

Derde 2018-08-21 10:17:08 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Could he not read?

Derde 2018-08-21 10:19:52 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

I'll bet he didn't anticipate his portrait showing up his small sins hundreds of years later.

Derde 2018-08-21 10:36:09 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #info-wars]

Also women started to wear pants, to work, and divorce became a big social phenomenon overnight.

Derde 2018-08-21 10:56:14 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #theology]

Most are. Few have dusty feet.

Derde 2018-08-21 17:35:21 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #general]

Cheers worsie

Derde 2018-08-21 19:52:31 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #memes]

Die boere het die magtige Engelse ryk aangepak met net voorlaaiers

Derde 2018-08-22 09:33:01 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #videos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlUQMH19BkQ - we need something like this "promoting" land expropriation

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