Messages from @Derde (Discord ID: 478847810918416395)

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Derde 2018-08-19 19:28:42 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #memes]

One blood.

As 'n Afrikaaner hoe bemoedig ek ander Christene ens. :
Haai boet, sit daai braaitang neer en luister bietjie: is jy seker as jy sommer vandag dood omval jy gaan hemel toe? Nie? Nee man, jy moet weet! Bybel toe: Dit het ek geskrywe aan julle wat glo in die Naam van die Seun van God, sodat julle kan weet dat julle die ewige lewe het en kan glo in die Naam van die Seun van God.

Mfecane: 1850-1840

So I read the article, and he says, there's a claim that "gospel preaching that calls unbelievers to repentance and submission to Christ’s lordship is itself a form of legalism." Indeed it is a form of legalism. Mr MacArthur's "gospel" is a call to do be sad and do dead works: not repentance from dead works and faith toward God. It's all about you, and it's not much about Christ and his work. MacArthur's not your old-style calvinist that looks for philosophical answers beyond what the Bible provides. He's a new sort that goes all the way to the idea that salvation is by faith, but faith is really works.

Exodus 20:11 Want in ses dae het die HERE die hemel en die aarde gemaak, die see en alles wat daarin is, en op die sewende dag het Hy gerus. Daarom het die HERE die sabbatdag geseën en dit geheilig.

Derde 2018-08-20 14:12:44 [Nothing Left #pushback]

Mattheus 19:4 En Hy antwoord hulle en sê: Het julle nie gelees dat Hy wat hulle gemaak het, hulle van die begin af man en vrou gemaak het nie, -- van die begin, nie van dermiljoene jare na die begin

Johannes 4:10 Jesus antwoord en sê vir haar: As jy die gawe van God geken het en geweet het wie Hy is wat vir jou sê: Gee vir My water om te drink, sou jy Hom gevra het en Hy sou vir jou lewende water gegee het.

1 Petrus 3:21 waarvan die teëbeeld, die doop, ons nou ook red, nie as ’n aflegging van die vuilheid van die vlees nie, maar as ’n bede tot God om ’n goeie gewete — deur die opstanding van Jesus Christus

If you submit to Christ as Lord, then you are submitting to his law. If that is salvation, then that's salvation by works of the law. If you're not submitting to his law, then what exactly are you submitting to?

Being saved is the gift of God.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

@Malcolm the Seceder I see I should make a mention 😃

Sanctification is not by works, but by the blood of Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
It's not a special word: it just means "made holy".


It means that even where you fail to live in accordance with the holiness that you have in Christ, you are still holy:
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
The law is the law. It's a thing. The gospel is not the law:
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Nobody but Christ has kept the law perfectly.

But you say sanctification is keeping the law

Then you're guilty of all.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Will be forgiven?

Future tense?

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I'm in present tense:
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

And if he doesn't ask, kinda knows, and doesn't care?

So if you die in a sinful rage that you don't repent of, you're going to hell?

You've never sinned and not cared? Are you a real person?

If it's ultimately that great attitude that determines heaven and hell, then it's the works of the law, and Jesus died for nothing.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

So every time someone sins, which is generally a failure of the will, you suggest he's not saved.

I don't see "guilt" in the fruit of the Spirit. love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:

You're saying this ... there are "mortal sins"
a) no self-deception is allowed
b) repentance is mandatory before death

Salvation by continual repentance is what you end up with when you head down the "lordship salvation" road.

This is the "gospel" of muslims and mormons.

You said "certain sins". By implication, other sins are excluded.

My deal is done - a good and perfect gift by faith, and nothing can change it:
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
It would be great for my life below to match to the calling wherewith I'm called, but being perfect is a long way off.

You can't just attach a whole theology to a word when that word has a perfectly good meaning already.

I defy you to find the words "true faith" in a real Bible.

He was warning about false prophets.

They have plenty of wonderful works.

And miracles

And they call him "Lord Lord"

But they did have lordship salvation.

They had faith in their works.

He's Lord no matter what you say or do. He's YOUR Lord, no matter what you think.

You don't make him anything.

I'm talking about who he is.

That's why we're still talking - because we lost each other on basic terms.

I'm happy to accept any term in the context it is used in the Authorised Version.

We are brought into conformity with the law.

We are sanctified.

But when Mr Lordship arrives, he says that he demands that you make a false promise to do works of the law, or you go to hell.

I believe in 100% sanctification. 5% won't do, neither will 99.5%

I have 100% in heaven already. That's salvation.

Yes, but I have it now in heaven, and I got it without an ounce of good works.

The "reserved in heaven" of 1 Peter 1:4 says you should like this talk of having it already in heaven more.

Yes, and his righteousness is imputed to us *if* we believe:
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
The trouble is that the lordship view says it is imputed if we make a false promise to care more about what we should be doing. That's not faith, but works, which will not save.

Is getting saved hard?

Christ did the hard part, you know.

If it's submitting, following, striving, obeying then it's not faith.

Well, the righteous will scarecely be saved from the judgement of God

They are part of his household.

That's why they get it first.

And some of the righteous are living wickedly.

Be the guy in James 2 then, go wild.

"Show me your faith without works."

You can question, but asking questions does not make a thing so, or not so.

There is no such concept as "true faith".

There is faith.

There is "dead faith"

There is no "true faith".

When faith is dead, what is it that is dead?

"Covenant of works" is nonsense.

I was 😃

'cmon, call me an Arminian.

Do you want to visit?

There's a spectrum of Calvinism. TULIP pretends to answer great philosophical questions about salvation, but it does not claim to be the gospel. That's old-school calvinism. It's broadly compatible with salvation by grace through faith without works.

However, when you follow it to the hard conclusions and you stick to them doggedly, you are preaching salvation by faith with works.

(And for a bonus, you don't need the gospel, since it's God's secret election that ultimately saves, but that's off the point.)

Said Paul,
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
But if he was a TULIP'er, he would have acknowledged that the gospel is completely ineffectual and the real power is God's secret election, and only the elect can believe. He didn't.

But the gospel is to all.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

There's a lot of whosoever.

Revelation 22:17 ... And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The offer is to all.
They don't hear, because TULIP teaches that the gospel is ineffective to save.

You need something extra, that magic um.

Thanks for the chat.

Go and tell them.

They're in the township 😃

Since the courts are ignoring the law ... how long before people start ignoring the courts ... no really really ignoring the courts ... no, normal people, I mean.

It's about hair folks.

We do know that Christ who is the glory of God did not shame his head with long hair

Bunch of queers

Could he not read?

I'll bet he didn't anticipate his portrait showing up his small sins hundreds of years later.

Also women started to wear pants, to work, and divorce became a big social phenomenon overnight.

Most are. Few have dusty feet.

Cheers worsie

Derde 2018-08-21 19:52:31 [Willem Petzer Live Chat #memes]

Die boere het die magtige Engelse ryk aangepak met net voorlaaiers - we need something like this "promoting" land expropriation

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