and corporatism is hardly well-defined anywhere

hardly defined but definitely what we have now

the socialists see this right, it's just the answer I'm not happy with from them

I don't follow, I've never learned what corporatism is

care to define it for me because I've never heard one?

When the government bails out corporations with our money

corporatism seems to be what occurs between capitalist and political forces, and the policies that results from that inter-mingling.

but the state is very much a part of capitalsm

^

When you need to be a part of some union before you can even have your business

not at all

yes it is

libertarianism is small government, more freedom and capitalism

Not even necessarily capitalism.

no, libertarianism is capitalism with small state

e have big government right now

The state is an apparatus of a ruling class.

Right now it is yes

In Ancient Rome, the senate was filled with the Patricians.

bet they'd buy all sorts of goodies with the government there

saying that libertarianism wants "more capitlism" (whateer that means) is ill-argued

they just want capitslism with less state

Which is a freer capitalism

excuse my spelling

@Sampuka what's your tendency

You can call it more or free, whatever

@Seedle don't align strongly with any

same

Government hinders capitalism, that's my issue

it's all capitalism, you cannot have degrees of capitalism

yes you can

I just say communist with american characteristics for the maymays

then I'd very much like to hear your definition

When the government puts demands on free companies they decrease their freedom to operate how they want (within the law)

yes

because without those regulations

people would be fucked

it's a third party like i said

When a government privatizes a company you'd say the country got more capitalistic right

but related strongly with the ruling capitalist class

mine goes something like: Capitalism is a mode of production where the means of production are privately owned. The owner hires people to work in said means of production in order to gain profits"

That is true and what we have now

in order to gain capital* I.E. money for the sake of making more money

Howver the governments adds all sorts of blockades on those companies (mostly smaller ones)

the governemt is a part of the mode of production, in fact it is what defends and upholds the mode of production

They've been doing it more and more, government hardly ever gets smaller, now we have big govermment

saying the state is not a part of capitalism is pretty dumb

lol no

that's a big part of the anarchist argument anyway

You can't start a new government

You can start a new business

The government is a different animal

entropeneurship is not capitalism

Yes it is

it's very often a part of capitlism

at least in the first world

more so than in any other system yes

You can start a new government.

yes, but htat doesn't make something capitalism

more freedom for your business is more capitalistic

there's entrepeneurship in mutualism too

but that's not capitalism

market socialism too

You can easily make a new government if you have the support and resources.

Which would probably be followed by a civil war with the current government

no you can't, not unless some other country sells you a part of their land completely

which they never will

@Timo))) please define capitalism for us, honestly

"freedom"

@Timo))) land is just whoever has power, you can fight the government

Freedom for the capitalist and not the people lol

though you'd probably lose since there's a reason it's the government

not that hard, the freedom to persue capital in whatever way you want, as long as it complies with the law, lower taxes and less regulations have a positive effect on it

maybe the word state would be better

how do you define capital?

hoarded resources?

The people can become capitalists in a capitalist society

If you call it hoarded sources sure

I'm going in 5, too much on discord

well, then what's the major difference from other modes of production like feudalism?

this is very clear in my definition

yeh I'll be leaving soon too hopefully

There the state has the resources, they can change the law to suit them, a company in capitalism cannot make those laws

in feudalism the state doesn't have the resources, local feudal lords does

protected by the state

same in capitalism

not to the same extent

companies which have capital is protected y the state

And those companies could be replaced by newer companies if it was easier to start new companies

But the current system stands in the way with ridiculous regulations

I mean protected as in litterally protected

If I try to take the capital the police comes

@Timo))) https://socialistworker.org/2009/03/04/marxs-vision-of-socialism

I'll read that

It's related.

I'm glad you wanted to be civil rather than some autistic memer.

I respect it.

honestly I've found a good amount of civil open people here

Yeah those are no good, I don't talk to communists/socialists often, pretty fun

relatively good amount anyways