I'm muting Jeff for tonight, that'll let me go to bed hopefully

TTYL

Night, sorry. I'll shut the fuck up now.

if local geography cannot support you, move. it's that simple. the africans create their own problems

Wew

The Africans might not be able to solve their own problems.

>makes racist jokes and claims religion gives great morals

Look who has better morals

Fucking idiot

What are morals?

Right and wrong

who was racist

??

Morals are generally regarded as qualities that are more respectable and compatible with societt

Iron Cross

oh

So basically emotional constructs not based in necessity...

regardless you shouldn't insult him while he isn't here to atleast defend himself

We identify these things as morals but they would exist regardless

Morals are evolutionarily useful for social animals to function together

Emotion does not prove the existence of god

Does morality exist without emotions?

Why does Peter Parker be Spiderman?

They can exist

I know psychopaths who are very compatible

But emotions make socializing easier

And pulls society closer

Anyhow

Kind of off topic comment as that has nothing to do with proving god

So you are saying emotions are favourable...

In the context of socializing

Not proving the existence of god

Read again

I'm getting there.

Emotions allow for free will

>free will

You can't choose something without a preference. You can't have a preference without emotion.

More like prevent it

Yes your preference forces your choice

Do people choose their emotions that are favourable to society?

What like murder is bad?

Humans are evolutionarily designed to not want to do that for no reason

Your preferences are a part of you. So basically a part of you forces your choices. Which means you choose by the force of emotion. Thus free will is emotional.

It's not really free will then

It's just choice

?

Just like animals make choices

So people, without choosing, act in a favourable way, based on a blind assumption from emotion.

Do animals have free will?

If you have self-control, you have free will.

It's not a blind assumption

Society won't work if everyone is murdering each other

People who did that died off

You have to be free from impulse. For example, if you can keep jogging even when you're tired, you have free will.

Sure but why are you jogging

Desire to lose more fat?

There you go

People with Tourettes, Autism, etc. might not be able to control their impulses

It's not really free will as it's the same as animals performing choices

Your desire is an emotion, sure, but it's not an impulse, because it's not an reflex. Free will requires a certain amount of thought

Let me establish that emotions have a positive role. From this I can say that they are not useless, and therefore have weight in practical matters.

I never said they were useless

You need consciousness to have will

I said they were useless in debate

Read again

You need a sense of existence, a first-person perspective, to have conscoiusness

But they are not useless in debate, we just established emotions have a practical role.

This self-sense might not extend to worms, jellyfish, etc.

emotion does matter in a moral debate though

Do chimps have free will?

Of course we'll never really know what it's like to be a worm, so we can only guess

Um

No it doesnt

It does not matter in a moral debate

Not at all

When we talk about free will, we're talking about choosing things that we've given thought, right?

why not? wouldn't societal emotion dictate law and order, as well as simple beliefs, morals?

Sure but are you saying animals don't give thought?

Emotion informs the subject matter of debate. It does matter.

No you determine what is best for society as a whole in moral debates

Not on emotions

I think some animals do, such as a dog that lets its owner put a biscuit on its nose

For example law and order

That's good for society as a whole

That takes some willpower, you know

what makes law and order good

Ok but that's not free will

Why not?

I think it's a scale, it's not like binary

Law and order is good because humans who did not care about being civil did not cooperate well with each other

And they died

A dog has less free will than you or me, but it does make decisions based on it's consciousness

*its

so those who felt it was important to care established standards

it seems incorrect to exclude emotion from a moral debate

but i can see why you might disagree

Let's have a moral debate on the death penalty

Someone gets emotional and says it should not happen because human rights bla bla

I say it should happen to a mob boss because he'll operate within prison anyways

So might as well give him the syringe