the proof of them being all the productive Farmers is that only a few generations ago these men used to be Serfs, they were freed and built up their farms

that's not proof, thats just speculation

Soviets killed them and replaced them with Unproductive people, and we saw what happened

@Stern what lol

"replaced them with Unproductive people"

proof of this as well

and once again, if you have no proof, it's a null point

and you're just spouting assumptions

yes, we know they were unproductive because they weren't able to reach pre collectivisation production levels

proof of this

Jesus Christ, you're probably 13 😩

ook

post proof

are you trolling?

are you going to post evidence?

of you being 13?

```I have no arguments. Never had, never will have.```
- Storm, 2018

" they were unproductive because they weren't able to reach pre collectivisation production levels"

```the proof of them being all the productive Farmers is that only a few generations ago these men used to be Serfs, they were freed and built up their farms```

where is the evidence that you base this claim on

```Soviets killed them and replaced them with Unproductive people, and we saw what happened```

@Xinyue nice memes bro

and what is the evidence you base these statements on?

@Xinyue will you present any arguments about why it happened?

@AdorableStormtrooper

and what is the evidence you base these statements on?

or wait i forgot, it didn't even happen

@AdorableStormtrooper and what is the evidence you base these statements on?

n

@AdorableStormtrooper and what is the evidence you base these statements on?

i

@Stern

@AdorableStormtrooper and what is the evidence you base these statements on?

@Stern

you're either some 12 year old that just found edgy natcap memes or a legitimate retard

nat cap memes?

i guess you gotta be a 12 year old legitimate retard to spot one right?

😩

"i know you are but what am I"

he really is 12

stalin: [implements policies to eradicate kulak class]
modern commies: "lol prove that the resultant famine was intentional"

massive brains detected

@ecojuche are you going to make an argument bro?

Only people that subscribe to Pewdiepie can claim to be 14 yrs old

@ecojuche what storm said

prove your assertion

there's a difference between evidence and argument, u do realize that right? @Stern

Are you familiar with Zimbabwe?

@AdorableStormtrooper ask the other guy, idc

yeah

@Stern or were you dropped head first and only linguistic skills you have are those playing with nursery toys can get you

the farms weren't confiscated to start a famine, that was just a consequence

"Michael Ellman argues that, in addition to deportations, internment in the Gulag camps and shootings (see the law of spikelets), there is evidence that Stalin used starvation as a weapon in his war against the peasantry.[92] He analyses the actions of the Soviet authorities, two of commission and one of omission: (i) exporting 1.8 million tonnes of grain during the mass starvation (enough to feed more than five million people for one year), (ii) preventing migration from famine afflicted areas (which may have cost an estimated 150,000 lives) and (iii) making no effort to secure grain assistance from abroad (which caused an estimated 1.5 million excess deaths), as well as the attitude of the Stalinist regime in 1932–33 that many of those starving to death were "counter-revolutionaries", "idlers" or "thieves" who fully deserved their fate."

so when a system eradicates a class of people who have generations worth of farming knowledge and replaces them with people who do not - what do you think happens?

@Aki fucking finally

thank you

@Stern are you going to make an argument?

now we can actually talk about the evidence

So what now?

we talk about the gold blockade

are you familiar with the gold blockade? @Aki

@Stern are you going to make an argument?

Not really...

it is just that: (i) exporting 1.8 million tonnes of grain during the mass starvation (enough to feed more than five million people for one year),

seems to be preety conclusive

All the western nations stopped accepting gold as payment for foreign goods and required all imports to be paid for with grain

but muh collectivization had nothing to do with it

@Stern are you going to make an argument?

this grain exported was being used to pay for industrialization and the buildup of railways that would allow for better transport of raw materials/food

```this grain exported was being used to pay for industrialization and the buildup of railways that would allow for better transport of raw materials/food```


where's the evidence? @Stern

if you look at the amount of grain exported in the years before the famine, the exports drastically decrease in 1932 when the famine starts

Witch doesn't change the fact that it conttributed to mass starvation.

@AdorableStormtrooper just a sec I'll post it

it's almost as if rapid industrialization is innately destructive or something and exacerbating the effects by eradicating the food production class is utterly retarded

@Aki but it wasn't intentional

that's the argument

@Stern so the exports decline post collectivization, wew lad

they had to pay for the foreign goods

>intentional eradication of farmers
>not intentional

never could have guessed that

raw mental gymnastics

@Alois Hello and welcome

Well firstly when you say that the amount of Grain exports decreased well... what is it supposed to prove?

hello @Bearer Of The Curse

@ecojuche the kulaks were killed because they burned grain and killed livestock, but they were not the 6 bajillion that died in the famine

@Stern all of them?

@Aki the grain exports decreased because they had to keep more to feed people

@Bearer Of The Curse how would i aquire roles

what would cause a farmer to completely eradicate his livelihood?

@Stern where's the evidence?

sure activates my almonds

I'm sure they did it for absolutely no reason

Jesus you guys are still in this discussion, what is it now?

TL;DR "killing food production class doesnt cause mass starvation it was actually the fault of nasty western capitalist hucksters"

Nahhh... nahhh that is autistic. The grain exports decreased because there wasn't enough grain to go around.

yeah, let's not talk about how the Soviets forcefully took all grain from Farmers forcing them to Protest by burning stock @Xinyue didn't address this one time despite me asking on multiple occasions, i guess we all know why

@ecojuche they weren't the food production class, they were the landowner class

kulaks =/= catch all for peasant class