Under the current systems available you would have the greatest freedom of choice

You can choose
not going to crippling debit and get your liver taken care of
Or
choose to go into crippling debt and maybe get your liver taken care of

Over here in America we don't have that choice the options are live with it or going to crippling debt

I think we're better off having the information necessary to become doctors Physicians whatever be more widely accessible so that people either cheaply and easily become doctors and help people or even better people are able to seize the means of producing health care for themselves and take care of the problem themselves

False.

Your irresponsibility with money doesn't equate to a medical practice forcing you into debt

Letting people have the Freedom of information necessary to solve problems himself is bad?

Explain

Save your money, use only a secured credit card

pay for things in cash

Don't fall for the credit trap, it's a fucking scam

You have absolutely no idea how the medical system works in America do you

***MANY*** doctors will gladly negotiate pricing with you if you pay in cash

Forgo insurance companies and that reduces the paperwork and bullshit they have to deal with

I love how your immediate assumption is that people are just buying credit cards left and right instead of actually acknowledging the overpriced nature of Medical Care a lot of the medicines that cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars only costs like less than five bucks and sometimes less than a dollar to make

now, that said, the insurance system is a fucking disaster and it's directly causing the prices of health care to rise

primarily because of government involvement, just like college loans

Good luck trying to even get into a hospital without insurance

They have to treat you regardless, so who here doesn't know what they're talking about?

You make valid points, but this "die or go into debt" schtick is bullshit

Did you just read your own post they have to treat you and then they charge you whatever they want to charge and it's not like you can just unsew your liver back into your body

Without having a monopoly they own a monopoly over what you're going to pay

Cuz the services have already been rendered and you're obligated to that contract now

🤦

Okay fine just walk out of a hospital after getting fixed up and just choose not to pay see what happens

People do it all the time lmao

I'm not saying that's the right thing to do

And people dine and Dash all the time guess what happens

apples to oranges much?

No it's literally the same thing you go in you get services and then are running out choosing not to pay for the services rendered

I see your point, but it's not considered the same, nor is it treated the same

I've been involved with the affairs of several family members with life altering illnesses

cancer for my grandmother and an exceptionally rare neurological condition for my mother

it's VERY expensive, and the hospitals are more than happy to work with you regarding payment

it's a massive issue, but not one that can't be fixe - without forcing everyone else to help pay for it

And let me guess because you don't have a credit card there for the medical bill only costed $2.99 to get taken care of for a procedure that costs thousands of dollars per treatment over the course of many months

So therefore the only reason people have expensive medical bills is because they just have a credit card even though that has no bearing on what it cost to treat your conditions

My statement about credit cards had to do with people being in unnecessary debt, not sure how/why you didn't understand that

had nothing directly to do with health are, but rather, the ability of people to pay for things

like medical bills

Because you specifically refer to it as the exclusive reason for people being in debt

No, I specifically refer to it being a reason people can't pay medical bills

Because acknowledging that the self-admitted expensive medical bills are fucking expensive would shatter your worldview

Not once have I disagreed with that notion

Every step of the way you've disagreed

they're tremendously expensive, but far less so if you ***don't use credit or insurance***

Read the part in bold

Having no money and having a credit card are not the same thing

Cover an expensive medical procedure then you can't cover the cost of the expensive medical procedure and will go into debt just to get healed

Be a fucking adult, learn how to negotiate, and make an agreement with the hospital

it's how we did things before the insurance scam

Such negotiations are out of your hands when dealing with medical procedures

They hold all the cards your bargaining posture is dubious at best

Factually incorrect, my mother and grandmother negotiated, one with Duke and the other with Sentara

Okay but can you use examples to come from reality?

CareCredit is a thing

And it's going to cost you an arm and a leg to get your arm and leg back

My family members aren't real? lol

Anyone can pull a name out of thin air and attach bullshit stories to them

People are so heavily indoctrinated they simply don't know you have the ability to negotiate with doctors

not all doctors will do it, however, it's not an absolute

nothing is

No you can try to negotiate with them you'll get laughed at and sued for wasting their time but you can try

Best case scenario a $20,000 procedure will get bumped up to say $40,000 if you pay it over the course of the rest of your life

Since they would be waiting to see that money they're obviously going to want more money for the inconvenience

people spend more than that on a car 🙄

I honestly don't want to hear it lol

Using the 1% is an example to Define what the status quo of the market is isn't very honest

There is a very good reason doctors are beginning to refuse medicare/medicaid etc.

Not exactly a strawman and I don't think it technically counts as cherry picking

the 1%?

You have lost your God damned mind

I'm literally living at poverty level

You can't honestly think everyone out there is buying Tesla's

and I purchased a $20,000 car

it's paid for, 100$

If you were living at the poverty level and spending over 40 Grand on a car I think it's your own fault honestly

100%*

I own a business, purchased the equipment for that too

Pfffhaha

Oh so now you're not at the poverty line

This is just hilarious

owning a business and/or buying a car doesn't have a single thing to do with whether your income is considered at poverty level or not

You and a dude in a different group have made this day very entertaining

When you own a business and are hiring other people in to do the work for you you're a bit better off than the hobo across the street

And I can guarantee your income is higher than minimum wage

I don't have employees, what the actual fuck are you on about

you're reading a lot into this

I own a business as a means of fucking over the system

and as a means of going my own way

I will probably never have an employee, and I'll take advantage of ***every single*** loophole to "legally" get out of paying taxes

I say legally meaning, legal by the state's standards

and yeah, that puts me at or below poverty level

Anyways, here's a pretty good article partly relating to the *actual* topic
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/100215/what-do-when-your-doctor-doesnt-take-medicare.asp

Okay I get it you're not even one of those petty-bourgeois mom and pop shops You're Just a Nobody who scrapes by through a little bit from his personal property

Why didn't you just say so in the first place if you don't own a business don't claim to own a business🤦

And I love how you exclusively used Medicare instead of a article referring to medical costs in general and do some basic function math to figure out why medical bills put people in debt

Because I own a business?

Meaning I don't work for anyone else, I offer services and create products using my personal property and am not beholden to anyone else

the medicare article is just an example of why government run healthcare is a shitshow, it wasn't an end-all-be-all to the argument

You don't seem to be willing to argue in good faith, and continuously make assumptions and/or put words into others' mouths.

Recognizing Petit Bourgeois for what it is compared to an actual business is not stuffing words in your mouth

As for good faith do we really have to dive unto which camp like hijacking terms and straw manning the fuck out if original libertarians ?

"One gratifying aspect of our rise to some prominence is that, for the first time in my memory, we, ‘our side,’ had captured a crucial word from the enemy . . . ‘Libertarians’ . . . had long been simply a polite word for left-wing anarchists, that is for anti-private property anarchists, either of the communist or syndicalist variety. But now we had taken it over..."

Your not anarchist or libertarian you just shoplifted some words

Propertarianism

kek frog or okay sign?