@εïз irma εïз it wasn’t really, it was seen as the natural order of things

Then she shifted the narrative onto the average citizen

“The Civil War was about slavery to the south but didn't become an issue for the North until 1863.”

This is her original statement

The natural order argument didn't spring out of nothing though.

And it’s patently false

Radical Abolitionists did not hold power until the end of the war

You allowed her to shift the frame because you don’t read carefully

None of the 1860 election candidates proposed banning slavery entirely

I was talking specifically about the context of the war if you look at the larger conversation, and I have since repeatedly clarified that going as far back as to the independence of America.

You can't seem to move past that.

<#452955229227319306>

You are making these adjustments to your arguments ad hoc

Whereas your arguments have been?

Lincoln wanted it banned in all western territories, Douglas wanted self determination, Bell wanted whatever compromise would keep the union together, Breckinridge wanted its expansion regardless of the popular opinion

Directly responding to your initial claims

Wasn't Lincoln planning to send the slaves to Liberia. I know he said that the slaves, once freed, should try and get to Africa.

I don't know, it seems mostly like you're just interested in insulting and screeching.

@Euro-American Bandit Freed Slaves where sent to Liberia under Monroe

I merely take issue with your mealy-mouthed weasel-words

Hence Monrovia the capital of Liberia

Ah. Understood

Well let's assume I'm totally wrong about everything and we can move on.

Wow a rare moment of humility from Irma

Please pin that

@Euro-American Bandit Lincoln’s opinions on what to do with the freed slaves is debated to this day

@Deleted User @Deleted User

Someone pin it

No

lmao

You are no fun give the reigns of this server to someone else

How about no

@Deleted User it’s up to you

Pin it

No

Do not pin it

Pathetic

@Deleted User stop ordering staff around

Frank is fun

You'll get used to it after a while

I’ll be retiring to bed now because the cowardice displayed by the owner here is giving me cognitive dissonance

?mute @Deleted User 10m

<:dynoSuccess:314691591484866560> ***ostentatiousotter#3068 was muted***

👌

I've been in plenty of servers with Frank

Muting doesn'

Doesn't stop the autism

Mute him for ten minutes before he goes to bed.

You just gotta let it flow until he tires out

How will he recover?

@εïз irma εïз what was your original argument

Keep Otter around, he's funny anyway

Someone posted a based black Confederacy supporter YouTube video

Mine was that it mattered to the political class almost exclusively

And I explained why slavery was a nonissue for everyone except the South for the duration of the war.

Until 1863 anyways.

So Otter is saying I meant before the Civil War even though the context is clear.

I disagree, the political class yes however, as you said the opinion of regular southerners ranged from apathy to a slight resentment

@εïз irma εïз

If you look at songs from the time the lyrics indicated that they felt the north was trying to subjugate the south

Southern support for the war itself was widespread, for slavery it was significant.

Yeah the South had always felt removed from slavery that the North tried to politically dominate it.

“Before the south shall bow her head, before the tyrants harm us I’ll give my all to the southern cause and die in the southern army”

That’s from southern solider

A popular song at the time

Doesn’t speak about keeping salves

Slaves

Just about resisting the tyrannical north

Yeah but you can't ignore that it was an issue for the average Southerner, which was an agrarian society. Many saw it as a method of upward mobility, many had a handful of slaves, and many resented it.

It wouldn't make sense even if every Southerner supported slavery to make it a part of a nationalist song.

Would be in poor taste.

Only 3% of southerners had slaves according to the 1850 census

So that alone is not a great argument.

I would disagree because most of the southern working class didn’t like big wig slave oweners

Source for that census?

@Da_Fish you are a creature driven purely by vanity... and crippled by laziness and fundamental stupidity

A cursory Google search traces that figure to an internet meme and confirms my statement.

Numbers are placed at between 1/4 and 1/3 from what I'm seeing.

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/decade/decennial-publications.1860.html

@εïз irma εïз

Just about 4%

Where on this page does it actually say thatm

Am I missing it because I'm on mobile?

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html

This website breaks it down by state.

Countrywide average of 8%, by individual state slaveholding states look at about 25% on average.

@εïз irma εïз https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1864/dec/1860a.html Broken down here by state or territory

Kinda hard to view the text though

@Deleted User If only you had a quarter arguments for every insult

But where does the figure of 3% actually come from?

Politifact, loathe as I am to cite them, breaks it down.

The 3% figure is counting individuals apparently m

The number I cited by state counts households.

Mystery solved gang.

@εïз irma εïз sitting here spewing out your tired fifth-hand /pol/ memes about religion and history like anybody but yourself is even vaguely impressed by the persona you decided to grab for yourself off an image-board this week.

"Using Census data to research his book, Glatthaar calculated that 4.9 percent of people in the slaveholding states owned slaves, that 19.9 percent of family units in those states owned slaves, and that 24.9 percent of households owned slaves. (Households are a broader category than families.)"

You're mistaken. I don't browse imageboards.

I thought you were going to bed?

And as for the technical distinction for census-taking, "A household consists of one or more persons living in the same house, condominium or apartment. They may or may not be related. A family has two or more members who live in the same home and are related by birth, marriage or adoption."

But that's still only a 5% discrepancy.